Beyond Normal
Are you ready to embark on the path to entrepreneurship? Join Beyond Normal Media, where we empower startup founders by highlighting their incredible journeys and the ways their products and services cater to customer needs.
Our podcast features insightful interviews with Black founders, sharing their challenges, triumphs, and actionable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Beyond Normal
Launchpad Stories: The First Chapter in Creative Journeys and Authentic Testimonials
In this podcast episode, we delve into how masterful storytelling can elevate black entrepreneurs and their startup ventures.
Join Kenny Groom and Jonathan Dumas as they dive into how black entrepreneurs can leverage storytelling to connect deeply with their audience, build brand trust, and accelerate their business growth. They share insights on using personal narratives to differentiate your brand and engage your listeners in the entrepreneurial journey.
Discover actionable strategies for integrating storytelling into your marketing and pitching efforts, and learn why this skill is crucial for the success of black-owned startups.
#BlackEntrepreneurs #StartupStorytelling #EntrepreneurialJourney #BusinessGrowthStrategies #BeyondNormal
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Hey, how's it going? My name is Kenny Groom. I am the host of the Beyond Normal podcast. I've been podcasting for several years now. I'm looking forward to just discussing some of the things I've seen and learned in this space. I'm going to pass it to my fellow podcaster now so he can give you a quick intro on the amazing things he's doing with his work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what up y'all? My name is Jonathan Dumas. I'm also obviously a podcaster of a show called Highly Visible and A Little Misunderstood. I've also been podcasting for a few years now. I'm really excited to dive into all the learnings, resources stuff. We wish we knew all this stuff along. You know this thing called potting, so really excited to be here and uh talk and chat and be real about the process. Uh, because podcasting yeah podcasting is really hella hard um for sure.
Speaker 1:So, you know, as we both have been, uh, podcasting for several years now, the landscape is always changing, changing. But you know, as we were talking and kind of brainstorming and just seeing how far we've come, we thought it would be, you know, now the perfect time for us to. You know, just share with the world, reflect a little bit around some of those things that we've learned throughout the process. For those that may be out there looking to be a podcaster or interested in getting into the space, why go there to bump your head if somebody's there to draw some knowledge, to help you progress a little?
Speaker 2:faster, yeah, and I would even add, like, for those who are already podcasting, right, or maybe who's been podcasted stopped podcasted stopped, like you know. It's also helpful to hear you know you're not alone in kind of like that journey. You're not alone in like like the process that we've all like any podcast who's been podcasting for a while has like felt the things you felt, done the things you've done all of the things. And so, um, I think a big part of some of the conversations we had off mic um, and that uh will likely have on on mic uh, is that, like you know, podcasting is hard, um, and uh, like, the name of the game is consistency, showing up all those things. So, um, I can't wait to like talk more about it, because I do really love podcasting. It's so fun to me, it's so fun to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the podcasters that I know say the same thing that jonathan. Jonathan, it says, the ones that go more than a couple episodes, they really do enjoy it. Uh, to your point, jonathan, like every time I have a conversation off air with the podcaster, I learn something. Yes, right, I'm learning about a new tool, a new way to to kind of break up my clips. I'm learning a new way to engage with my, my guests and, ultimately, the audience. And so, to your point, like, uh, the podcasters that are out there as well already doing it, I think they'll definitely get some value, uh, from some, from some of the uh experiences that we can allude to a little yep and and like, uh, like, uh, folks always say, especially black folks, if you.
Speaker 2:Well, when you know, you know, if you know, you know, and I feel like other podcasters know, uh, you know what I mean. So, um, uh, one of the things that we didn't do before we dive into, uh, some of these questions that we outlined, uh, kenny, is we didn't talk about, like, what our shows are about. So what is your show about?
Speaker 1:um, kenny, you know we're touching on the businesses, the podcast that we, we both run. So what is your show about, kenny? You know we're touching on the businesses, the podcast that we both run. My podcast, the Beyond Normal podcast, is about essentially highlighting Black founders right, the journeys that they're on. I know that there's some incredible founders out there doing, you know, just amazing things and underserved communities a lot of times.
Speaker 1:And so when you start to think about the, the, the black business owners that are here, um, you know, in the States and really around the world, like we, we got to figure out how to make sure we're we're constantly shining a light, a spotlight on their stories, and that was the main reason I started uh, you know, started the beyond Normal podcast.
Speaker 1:That's like the kind of the launching point, the launching thought, and I can actually just share real briefly, like just to let folks know, my very first guest was a local founder in the Charlotte area who had a delivery laundry service. When you think about something like laundry, it's something that hasn't changed right for decades, if not centuries. But all the technology that's out here, you know, allows someone doing something Someone may seem as simple as a laundry delivery service to bring their business into 2024. Technology serves all businesses really across the world, and so, um, you know, I'm always looking for founders that are out there doing amazing things being a business owner, because it's not a it's not a easy task to found and, uh, run your own company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's cool. See, look at me almost going into podcast host mode because that's, that's super fun and like that's a great example of just, you know, the fulfilling of, like the mission, of your, your show, of just like something so seemingly normal, um, but you like hear their story and you're like, oh, shoot, like this is not just whatever like laundry. You know, I'm saying it's, it's something more like, why did you decide on laundry? Um, what like technology is like influencing your business? How are you pushing it forward? Um, beyond this kind of like, um, what's the word? I don't know what we see at face value. That's, that's really cool, that's. Yeah, I'm going to go back and listen to that episode. Oh, very first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that um, oh, cool, I guess I'll go next. Um, my show, highly visible, uh and a little misunderstood, for initially started out as, like a um, a journal. I was just curious about the people on my life, curious about the people I grew up with, um, and I just wanted to ask them questions instead of just like thinking I know them, thinking I know, you know, uh, what their thoughts are and patterns are, just because I spend a good amount of time with them, or, in some cases, not as much time with them. And so it has evolved into something more where it's, you know, having more nuanced conversations about very complex things. Nuanced conversations about very complex things.
Speaker 2:As I was having these conversations with my friends, family, people that I met on the internet that became friends and family, I started to realize like folks are hungry.
Speaker 2:Very similar to what you discovered, kenny, is like the stories and the why behind some of the bigger headlines, right Behind some of the big things that are going on in society, the things that we navigate on an everyday basis but sometimes feel uncomfortable around having those conversations or don't know how to have those conversations in a way that honors some yourself and the other person that you're talking to, and so I just decided to have more direct conversations about that um and be honest and um, and take people seriously about what they're saying, and it's been really cool to see the show transformed from this like diary of myself, this open diary and um, breaking down concepts and I'm a policy nerd and history nerd and stuff like that so breaking down these concepts for folks and it now being just like full-on conversations with you know, beyond just my friends and family, um, uh, but people that I'm meeting online that are like these cool experts, have these dope stories, um, and are willing to uh, chill in the gray um and navigate that space together and really question the why behind we do the things that we do.
Speaker 2:So it's been, it's been a really cool and fun journey over the past uh, few years, uh, to do this okay that's dope, like you touched on.
Speaker 1:Well, two things there.
Speaker 1:This is me wearing my podcast or host at like uh, jonathan was a guest, oh yeah, so I feel like, as you were talking, it brought back some of the memories you know, going through our conversation for the pod. But then, like you thought about, like you know, people telling like their honest stories, authentic stories, Like it doesn't really get more honest than being on a podcast, right, Like you could probably go and see the situation with like this full script. Like you could probably go and see the situation with like this, this full script, and then, for whatever reason, once we get the record button, like all that goes out the window. And then you're trying to figure out, like how can I, you know, exhibit my true self in an audio format? Right, For those true kind of diehard podcast fans. But now, you know, podcasting is kind of blurred the lines between audio and video content Right.
Speaker 1:But you got to have honest dialogue for it to be something that resonates people. And then the second thing is that for you again this is me wearing my podcast hat but the podcast fits within your business right. And so you had your business and now you have your podcast and your podcast is helping your business grow. That's another cool thing that you know. That's really an underrated way to think about podcasting. That you know I've seen some people tap into and really unlock you know some business, some revenue behind having you know content in the form of a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's a really good point. It's been a really interesting journey because I'm like a large part of that was even, you know, think about how am I going to make these like stories and thoughts or whatever, integrate into the work that I'm doing, to the work that I'm doing and when I actually really like thought about it. It was so easy because folks like desire authenticity and talking about life and struggles and like fears and, you know, work and just all the intersecting ways of being like folks want to hear and talk about it and so, like I've been able to use my pod as a resource because I just have like legit, like cool-ass people that are willing to have amazing conversations and they just so happen to be, you know, a professor, they just so happen to be an author, they just so happen to be X, y and Z. But what's cool and I felt this even when you, I was on your show and some of the other episodes that I've listened to is, again, it's like we're seeing and talking and connecting with these people that like on the surface, we get like their bio, you know, founder, whatever business owner do, xyz, um but the way that we engage with them is actually like their humanity first, like their story first, um, and that's the part that I really, yeah, I love, um, I love, and it's taken me a little bit to get to like landing or not landing there, but getting there to be able to do that as a host.
Speaker 2:But once we, once I've landed that and gotten that um a little bit better, it's just been the the to your point. The conversation is just like rich. It's so full um and fun like people. Just it's wild how like deep people are willing to go when you hit that record record button.
Speaker 1:It's wild, it really is yeah yeah I don't know if we'll talk about that, uh, back here on this episode, but like what you just touched on at the end, like people go really deep and they'll just start talking and they don't know like they've been talking the guest I'm speaking about. Like they don't know they've been talking for like five minutes straight, yeah, and then, as opposed, you gotta kind of like find a way to like all right stop stop giving me all the content at one time like this is my show like this is my show.
Speaker 1:I understand you're here to share your story so I kind of got to shut up. But I want to interject and kind of break this up a little. Yep, yep, but people are surprised like once again that record button gets it like they just start letting it all out there and it's really authentic conversation versus you know, like you were saying like just seeing the title of founder somewhere. We go to people's LinkedIn and it's like it doesn't look like they've ever made a mistake. Like how can you tell? Like they like where were the, where were the lumps gained? Right, they fall and bump their head and pivot Like it's really hard to decipher that a lot of times on social media because you just see like this finished product, right.
Speaker 1:But for podcasting in particular, it's one of the mediums, I think, where people don't just want to hear like the end of, they don't just want to hear the finished product, right, they want the story, they want to hear the journey, they want to hear all these things. Like the most listened to podcasts are like murder mysteries, right, like that's no surprise. Like people really want to hear all these things. Like the most listened to podcasts are like murder mysteries, right. Like that's no surprise. Like people really want to hear a story. They want to, like they want to take the roller coaster ride with you. They don't want to necessarily to your point, like you were saying just see, oh, this person's a founder, okay, yeah, how did they get to that? Like, what was their journey? Why? Why are they interested in entrepreneurship? Like there's so much below the surface, you can peel that onion back and that's like the, that's like the movie, the movie magic. Like that's what makes everybody's life somewhat of a a movie, a mini movie or a full yep, yep, that's good.
Speaker 2:We're getting into all kinds of like these, so it's so fun. No, we're good, we're good, I know that's see, this is exactly why I wrote it out before we started, because then I knew we were gonna go all kinds of places, um. But, like, this is not the only recording, though, too. We're gonna get into all of that in like separate, separate posts too. Um, but I would, I mean, I think I would want, I want to shift gears just a tiny bit, uh, because we touched on some of the things we're going to be sharing now a little bit throughout, like those, those little spills that we had. But I think a good question is like, why do we get into potty? You know what I'm saying. Like, again, we said it earlier. But like you know, if I were to ask you, kenny, like why did you decide to do a podcast? Like, why that, why this medium?
Speaker 1:to for me it was. I came from a work environment where I was like interacting with people in person, so sales, like it was like sales and like data-driven conversations and meeting with these really big businesses, like big retailers, all this other stuff, right, really cool stuff like traveling, all the whining and dining clients and all this stuff. And so the pandemic hit and then it was like I'm just at home all day, like I'm on 18 Zoom calls. I'm not necessarily like interacting with business owners the way I was before, in person, kind of breaking bread. And so I had to find just different ways to outside of the corporate rigid structure to have conversations with them where they can kind of like you know, sit back a little bit, take their time off, like not just be so uptight on this zoom call, yeah, like we were just zooming the zoom and like zoom crazy.
Speaker 1:Um, I understood that at the time and so I was like, well, let me see if I can start reaching back out to the business owners in my network. And I found out that a lot of them went out of business like no surprise, due to the pandemic. Right, everything was on hold at least right, yeah, from a business, but the ones that were open within my network. I was like, well, how are you doing this? Like you know, the media outlets are saying it's the end of the world, like times are this. Is this new paramount shift? Like how are you actually able to keep your business open? And then it started to. I started to dig a little bit and have conversations with them and they were like, hey, like this is in me, this is my journey. My journey has got prepared me for these types of situations, the pandemic being one of those situations where I'm just built for this, like I understand it, like I'm here for it, like I'm up to the challenge.
Speaker 1:Um, and that was something that, like, I admired and I was like, like, okay, we got it. I got to figure out, like, how to bottle this, like put it, put it in a format so other people can listen, because we, with all these businesses being, you know, destroyed, essentially, uh, we need more businesses to be created, and so we'll probably need more new entrepreneurs to fill that gap that's left behind by some of those folks that you know they cash out or they're just not up to, they're not, they're not thinking that way anymore in the entrepreneur mindset, and so that was really like the launching pad for me. I think I bought like a zoom membership or something like that and then the rest is history, yeah. But that was kind of the launching pad for me and why I got into potting as a medium I could quickly buy a membership for and just start figuring out how to put these stories in in the content I could share with others no, that's cool, that's really cool.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like that a lot. Um, hmm, what about you? Uh, I don't know. I like I I've been a big fan of podcasts for a minute.
Speaker 2:Like I don't remember the. I don't remember, like when I first started hearing podcasts. I think it was like 2014,. I think, um, cause I had a job where I was traveling a lot and I don't know who introduced me to a pod. It might've been an article I got or something, but I just started like just um, devouring these podcasts. Um, uh, npr politics was actually probably like my in like initiation.
Speaker 2:Again, I said I was like a policy nerd, political nerd, and so a lot of fascinating things were going on 2014, 2015. So I was like just eating, so just just always, constantly, and then I love to like learn and so I just found like podcasting was so easy to do on the go. So it's like, you know, if I'm on my way, you know I'm on a business trip and I'm traveling and I gotta drive, be in a car for like an hour and a half, all right. Well, you know, um, I'm listening to music or I'm a, you know, listen to a podcast. Um, and nine times out of ten, I was listening to a podcast, um, just keeping me company, um, and yeah, I just started like expanding it and I just started realizing within myself like how much I was starting to learn about the world and like expanding my horizons.
Speaker 2:Because I think at that time I was like Really really lonely, like as far as, like you know, being around other black people and all sorts of stuff, like just I was at a very lonely time in my, in my life and like I just kept hearing. I was like just listen to all these black voices doing dope stuff and I'm like I want to be their friend and hearing their stories and actually learning about other people that I've never interacted with before, and just slowly but surely felt my mind like expanding, expanding and seeing how like huge the world is. My mind like expanding, expanding and seeing how like huge the world is and, and so, similar to you, like you know, pandemic hit I'm still listening to a lot of podcasts and then I'm just, like you know, like I had this idea of like I could do this, you know, like years before, and I was like I could do this, I could do this, and I sat on it for two or three years, pandemic hit. You know, boredom hit. I wasn't doing nothing and I was like I dusted off that journal, that I wrote all these ideas out and, you know, I started recording. I did it, I tried it and it was so interesting about how much I loved it and what's. The other interesting part is, like I didn't.
Speaker 2:I had one episode, uh, I recorded four or five episodes that never went live. Like I recorded them and they sounded bad to me so I just stopped, um, and again two years, two, three years later, um, you know, in the house, I was like I'm gonna really invest some time to like learn how to do this. Well, um, and uh, I recorded and then actually just press send, like I just was like I gotta just get it out. Um, and the rest is similar. The rest is history.
Speaker 2:Like, um, I really just wanted to. I was curious, um, about my friends and family and I was like there's no way that I'm the only person that feels this way, um, that has these questions, that want to know more about the people that are in our lives. Um, because we really did it like we don't know what we miss, um, so, yeah, that's, that's really like. The heart of it is like I was curious, um, I thought I could do it and, a fun fact, growing up I always wanted to be radio host and it wasn't until like year three, like I was doing it for three years, and last year was the first time I realized I'm like. I'm like actually living out a dream that I wanted and it's like when I was a kid, and it's just so.
Speaker 2:It's really wild that I get to do this and I'm having so much fun doing it.
Speaker 1:You still have the original four or five episodes.
Speaker 2:They're probably somewhere. I don't know if I can bring myself to listen back to them. They're probably somewhere. One of them. Fun fact was that the file got corrupted, so I spent an entire weekend trying to learn code to um and I was able to do it. It was funny, I was able to do it. But um, yeah, those episodes are somewhere. They're probably fine.
Speaker 1:I was probably being, you know, over critical, but um, yeah, yeah, man yeah, that's what I was alluding to is, like you said, like you launched it when you were just like I'm gonna record it and hit the scene, like I just I'm not even gonna like worry about it. Like I knew my first couple pods in terms of, like, audio and video quality, they were trash. It was like the zoom, zoom panda, the zoom mania, right, and so everybody was like just get a zoom and start recording stuff. And I went that route and it was just like that's not the preferred tool for podcasting, but it at least like, like you said, it just gave me all. Right, let me just keep pushing, let me see if I really like this enough to put in the time. Like you, like you talked about, you recorded four or five episodes and then you went away from it because you were unsure.
Speaker 1:I didn't even give myself the time yeah because I'm pretty sure it's not a reason just not to do yep, yep, no, that's good you can't connect to. I'm not sure I would have had the. Yeah, I think I would have been fine if I would have recorded five episodes and I would never put them out.
Speaker 2:I would have been done I I honestly is the pandemic, bro, like it really was a pandemic, honestly, because if I didn't, if I was not bored, like you know, at home, having to stay at home, um, I probably would have never came back to it. It probably just would have been one of those things that stuck on the shelf, um, maybe I would have did it. But you know, the job I had was cool. I actually was enjoying it. The reason why I even was like trying to do something different and potting was because I got like, not because I just you know, let's do a lot of potters, you know I could do this it was because, like, I didn't like my job at the time, like at that first go-around, I needed some kind of creative outlet. Like it was just, oh my gosh. And so, you know, yeah, it was a pandemic, for sure, I honestly think it was a pandemic. I needed some kind of hope, yeah, yep.
Speaker 1:I can relate to that. That was part of mine. I needed something else to figure out how to bond with people the way I was accustomed to. Because the Zoom. I'm sorry if I'm slandering Zoom. For all the Zoom lovers out there it destroys me being on back-to-back-to-back-to-back.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Video conferencing calls with, like this, this very generic agenda, reviewing PowerPoint presentations. Everything is like cookie cutter. We're just telling each other the same information over and, over and over. I had to figure out a way. All right, I'm going to be in Zoom all day. Let me figure out how to get some creative output on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to like what you were saying right, all right, I'm going to be in Zoom all day, let me figure out how to get some creative output on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so it's similar to what you were saying, right, where?
Speaker 2:work wasn't doing, my life force went down as you started listing all that stuff out. Is that what you said?
Speaker 1:I just started getting drained. That was so crushing that was really so crushing. I'm glad that somebody else felt the way I felt that way about it. So, like that brings me to all right, you recorded some episodes, you went away from it. Now you're back with it, you're, you're feeling good, like you get a real, a real good energy of busting, podcasting. Now, like, what do you, what do you wish you knew, like when you originally started this process. Now that you have all this information, yeah, um.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll just start with one thing and maybe we can go back and forth on like the things that we wish we knew. But the the first one is like it goes back to like why I didn't post those episodes. Um, the first four or five episodes that I had is like I wish I knew that it didn't have to be perfect. You know, I'm saying like, um, I think I fooled myself a lot of the times and maybe even folks that are new or even that are that are podcasting now, um, that like an episode has to be perfect, that like, um, editing has to be perfect, sound quality has to be perfect, um, just everything has to be like a certain way in order for folks to like vibe with it.
Speaker 2:And it's so interesting that you know some of these podcasts I listen to that are huge. You know, like I love um, uh, higher learning, uh, van lathan and rachel lindsey, like I love that podcast. I've been listening to that podcast sometimes and there's like editing skips, there's stuff that's messed up, there's all kinds of stuff and they got all kinds of money back in their show and it's huge.
Speaker 1:And then I sit there.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't care about that. Like they're hilarious. I learned something it's a great show, it's one of my favorite shows. You know what I'm saying, and so like I wish I would have known that. You know four years ago when I started, that it didn't have to be perfect, it could just be to show up um and try your best, and it'll get better with time yeah, that's, that's, that's good.
Speaker 1:And, like you mentioned, in that that show there's like the shows that we know are like the kind of the pinnacle of podcasting, right, like they're the ones making, you know, the most money. Probably they have the biggest audience is, I think I embrace, like here's how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it my way it's not necessarily going to be perfect.
Speaker 1:You can probably buy a more expensive camera, yep, or microphone always. You can always spend money on like that type of stuff, but once your quality gets to a point that resonates with your audience, um, it's good like it. As perfect as it needs to be, you know, is the way that I like to think about it, but that's what you just spoke to. I've spoken to a lot of people that tried podcasting and then, like you said, they're like I didn't look, like what I'm seeing the videos that are getting the millions of views online and it's like you're probably not going to get that right out the gate. It's not going to be this perfect, this perfect world. It's really like more of like a journal, like you mentioned at first, like that's a. That's a really good analogy, I think, for, uh, what podcasting starts out, as for most people, and then it morphs into something else once you get other hands in the pot and people wanting to throw money at you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know who's to say. You actually don't like potting. You know I'm saying why would you? You know, like you're sitting here in the planning stages and doing all this stuff like what if? What if I, you know, and I spent a long time planning and did all this stuff what if I didn't even like podcasting? I mean, obviously I don't, I wouldn't have considered that a waste, but at the very end of the day, you just never know. Just do it, try it, try it first, put an episode out first, see how you like the process before you you start doing all that stuff what would you say?
Speaker 1:what?
Speaker 2:would you? What would you say? What was something you wish you knew?
Speaker 1:uh for me, I think. Um, so a lot of the founders that I initially had on uh, they wanted to just like focus on their business and they didn't want to necessarily be seen. They were okay with being heard. So probably like the first 20 episodes or so, I didn't really care as much about video. And then eventually I just had to tell, like some of my founder guests, like we're going to be a video podcast, like this is like for me. I just had to tell, like some of my founder guests, like we're going to be a video podcast, like this is like for me. Like I'm used to engaging with people breaking bread.
Speaker 1:I think that's part of it. I feel like that's part of what draws people in Yep. I think the video just takes it over the top. The audio is good. You still have to have a captivating conversation, but there's something about video and just seeing people, about video and just seeing people, and so for me, I wish earlier on I would have um focused on video and figure that piece out a little bit sooner, because I think I'll be that much further in terms of just like creating content and being comfortable doing content in these different ways, uh, from a comfort level, not necessarily an expert. I don't think I'm ever going to be a social media expert, yeah, yeah, but just feeling comfortable at times I still have to like come to grips with that in certain instances. Yeah, so just embracing video sooner for me would have been more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we were talking off camera, but now I'm going to video now, four years after the fact, and it is um, it's tough. Yeah, I know it's tough.
Speaker 1:It's tough but it's yeah. So, like you said, it's just like as you're doing it, just get it. Get it, process it, you know, make it a part of your process, the video piece, and it's going to be a little bit more work. And then you talk about video quality and 720 versus 1080. I don't know what none of that means. I'll be honest. I just want content to go out that looks a certain way that you know meets my taste, and then all the rest will figure it out.
Speaker 1:I'll partner with different people. That's their expertise, yep, but I've gotten to that point now, right, where I'm comfortable with that and not necessarily, like you were saying, you were tinkering with code at one point. I at first I was probably like tinkering a lot with the. Well, if I do do video, like how do I make it good and all this stuff, and it's just like nah, just getting used to sitting in front of this camera, being comfortable, having a conversation with somebody, not looking all over the place, which I still have to work on yeah but just being comfortable doing certain things on video.
Speaker 1:The sooner you get to it, probably the better you'll be. Yep, you know, just think a year out, two years, three years, five years out, um, it'll, it'll. You'll reap the benefits of it for sure as a podcast, in my opinion that's true.
Speaker 2:That's true. That's good. That's good. I'm trying to think what else I wish I knew I got. I got one that I wish I knew. It actually ties into both of the things that we've been talking about, but it's like I wish I knew that I didn't have to, like invest so much money into, into, into stuff. Like, just like what I was saying earlier, like you don't even know if you're going to like podcasting. You don't even know if you're you're going to want to be have a video platform uh, just a video platform or just an audio platform or a mixture of both. So you know, at the beginning I was like looking up mics and trying to invest in this stuff and having to have all these headphones and what. What about the what? What about when the guest sounds like I got to get lights and all this other stuff?
Speaker 2:And I think when I in the beginning, because I didn't have any money, I was actually forced to just make it work and just use a pair of headphones and stuff like that, not even using any software, because this was before I had a Mac Mac and I just recorded on my iPad. You know what I'm saying, and just doing that.
Speaker 2:And so it was. What's interesting is that, like I just wish I knew, because it's not that I invested a lot of money in the beginning, but like I invested an unnecessary amount of time in that aspect, rather than actually focusing on the conversation, having conversation, um, like, uh, focusing on the craft, rather than just like all the extras that you know, other stuff, because I was so busy paying attention to, um, paying attention to, like all these other folks that have again so much like money and backing and support from organizations, companies, whatever, rather than just realizing I'm a one person. I'm one person, um, and I'm literally doing this as a hobby, just to have fun. Like, just have fun, um, uh, yeah, because you'll get there and to your point, you'll get there and to your point, you'll get there to your audio sounding better, to your video looking better and stuff like that. But like I think the first thing that needs to be is just like record, like do the podcast first, focus on the craft first and then move forward.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad that you brought this up up. You said that you feel like you spent too much time. I feel like I spent too much damn money at first. Right, I spent a lot of money on podcast. I just started like subscribing and stuff. It's like, oh yeah, I'm on this forum, like let me subscribe to it for like a month or two and then I cancel it. But I was just subscribing, it's fine.
Speaker 1:It's not free. It's not free. But I will say to your point, right though the activity of it, like the recording of it and just getting to the nitty-gritty of it, you can record that stuff on your hotbed or whatever device you have, your phone. You can post it to youtube yourself. Yep, you can post it to some of the podcasting sites, I think yourself. I think, yeah, I'm not sure like individually. Most people go in like um, like a lipsyn or like a Lipson or like a Buzzsprout or whatever. Right, so you can do it a free way at first, but then when you start to brand it and kind of compare yourself to podcasting and the industry and all these things, then it can get expensive. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did a post last year, I think it was on well, it's X, now it's the site. Site. I can't stand saying that, but um, I think I broke down like how much I spent for one and then at the end of it I was pretty ashamed of myself. How much um.
Speaker 2:I was spending for one.
Speaker 1:I think, on like, like, little tools and subscriptions or stuff like that. It was like 50 bucks a month, maybe 60, um, but that stuff adds up every month. And then that doesn't include the one-time cost of like equipment and like. Maybe I work with a designer for a logo or some something else.
Speaker 1:Um, so, um, this hobby yes, as you label, yeah, which I appreciate you labeling it, such has cost me thousands and thousands of dollars at this point, four or five years in, I'm glad I made the investment right, but I probably could have did certain things like, to your point, just get a camera in first, get whatever cheap mic you can and then just like figure out the rest once you're um 10, 20, maybe 30 episodes in yeah, and we're gonna have an episode where we talk about resources and stuff like that more specifically, because there's so many resources out there where you can avoid how much money we've spent, um, but uh, yeah, I like it's so funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I said hobby um, which it was in the beginning, but like now and I don't know how you feel about this, kenny but like this is a part-time job like there's, like when I'm in a full swing of a season, um, with between um editing, um meet with my intern for the show, uh, actually having recording the podcast, um, or editing the podcast, everything that goes. There's so many aspects that go into the show.
Speaker 2:Um, posting, promoting all that stuff if you want and then add on top of that, you know, sponsors or support or whatever. There's all kinds of extra stuff that goes into it. And then you got subscribers. So like how do you connect with your subscribers and make them feel engaged?
Speaker 2:there's all many, all kinds of aspects of this part-time job. At this point you know I'm saying like, so I'm in a full swing of a show. It could easily, you know, top 20 hours a week on top of, like my, my job. You know I'm saying like my, my nine to five. So, um, as much as I, you know, called it a hobby before, like this thing is no longer a hobby. I still enjoy and love doing it.
Speaker 2:But this is a legit part-time job. That's fabulous. But I didn't get to part-time job status until three years, four years. I didn't see it as a part-time job until really recently. But, it is. It really really is, Especially now that it's an aspect of my business too.
Speaker 1:So it's an aspect of of my business too, so um it's, it's wild.
Speaker 2:It really is wild and it is not free. Anytime I pitch myself to my listeners, I'm like y'all, like this podcast. The show is not free, like it's not just time, it's like the hosting site. You know, I'm thankful to say that I've been able to pay my intern every single month since he's been on with me. But it's like this is all this, that's good yeah this is like all this extra stuff.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm saying um that I just didn't realize that went into it um, so that's a yeah. I just want to make sure that that's clint folks yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:Uh, I think we talked about this almost there. I did um a couple runs of like merch. I was just like I'm just gonna go for like the first two or three seasons.
Speaker 1:I'm like buying merch and doing all this other stuff. I'm like putting pricing on the site, not knowing like I just wanted just to give the customer one number that they pay. I think it was like 40 bucks for a hoodie or something like that. And then I go to the post office and they're like yeah, you gotta pay in the shit, dude, buddy, you know that, all right, and I'm like what is going on? This is weird. Yeah, I didn't know we had to, and the price is big depending on where you ship it. Yep, so now I'm like all right, I'm in, I'm not really green on these hoodies and these hats. The way I saw it was like, yeah, like um, this thing is not, it's not cheap yes, when you start to make it.
Speaker 1:Like you say, when it goes from a hobby and you're just like it's just a passion for you're not necessarily like too tied to the cloth, but then, when it comes, you're spending a significant amount of hours each week. You know you're reading, with significant amount of hours each week. You know you're reading with um, creative people helping you with creative, you may be meeting with a sponsor, you're meeting with potential guests. Like you spend several hours, like you said, up to 20 hours in any given week. Then it's like, okay, I have to get some sort of a return for this because I'm taking time away from making money to support my family.
Speaker 1:Yes, uh, so there's like you know, when it comes to that, then you start to like, look at a little bit more, not penny pension, but just like all right, what am I spending my money on? Am I really getting value from having this $10 subscription, $15 subscription every month? There's four times and not. You're probably not and you can go without it. But then, to your point, you may be sacrificing time, balancing that time and money piece. Do you want, do you want, to spend the money to have it done in a shorter time, or are you okay, rolling up your sleeves for certain stuff and, uh, you know, keeping that money in your pocket and just doing some things yourself yep, yep and Yep, and like asking, being honest, and asking yourself, like what can I do myself?
Speaker 2:And then you know, at that, at a point where you're like, further down, where do I need to like actually invest that money in? Because, honestly, I've gotten to a point now, and I'm thankful that I'm here at this point, where I have extra money, to be like, all right, I actually don't need to do that. At this point where I have extra money to be like, alright, I actually don't need to do that. I don't have time to learn this, then try and implement it, spend hours and hours and hours trying to do it and then try and sloppily put it out there. At this point I'm like there's somebody who literally can do this in a couple hours. All I gotta do is just spend an hour to break down what I need, um, and they'll be able to do it very fast um, um that's money well spent yeah yeah
Speaker 2:so this, I mean this. There's the the pros and cons of it. Like you just start like to your point what you did you were, you just say it was so good. It's like you just get wiser, uh, with your money, um, you start to get not not frugal, but you, you start to be like you know, you ask yourself, like you just start asking yourself do I actually need to do this? Do I actually need this? Um, and what's the roi? It's a really good, really good point. Um, yeah, amazing, all right, well, we've been talking for a while. I know that we didn't want this to go too long. Is there any other things that you wish? You wish you knew?
Speaker 2:maybe one more, one more thing I know, I've dropped like three or four, so I'll just let you.
Speaker 1:Uh, let you bring yeah, I'll do one final one. Um, just the power in connecting with other podcasters such a good one. Um, I was on a little bit of an island. Yes, I say no this one for last, I hope. I hope you appreciate that job.
Speaker 2:No, I absolutely do. Yeah, I'm joking, I'm joking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like. Connecting with podcasters earlier probably would have helped me spend less money. I would have learned some tips early on that would have kind of you know again, my trajectory would have just been that much faster. I would have been able to accelerate um higher faster, and so that that's something where I said at the beginning of the call every time I talk to another podcaster I learn something, like I I have something, a new tool or a new way to approach an interview that I can incorporate. And for the first probably 30 episodes, I didn't necessarily connect with podcasters as much as I could. And then, after that point, I actually was like, hey, I want to have podcasters on my platform they can be founders, but I also want to make sure I have some creatives as well that I can share with my audience. But in a selfish way, I'm actually learning from them and how they went about building their platform, yep. So yeah, just connecting with other podcasters. There's tons of value in that.
Speaker 2:That's such a good one, that's a really good one to leave off on our to be like that last, like wish we knew. Very similarly, it took me a while to start connecting with other podcasters, so I learned something new every single time I talked to another podder, and then also without you, and then you like even a little peek behind the curtain. Y'all like we had like a like a whole, like spreadsheet that we put together and we just like jotted down ideas that we want to talk about. We jotted down like resources, um, like other people that we knew, and just to be able to like have somebody else to like, oh, like you use this tool too, like how are you using it? Or I never heard of it. It's just, it's just, man, like it's. I just it just is easy. It just is easy. Yeah, it just makes things so much easier. So I love that. That's a good point, really.
Speaker 1:That's a yeah just as early as possible. Just connecting. I know there's some communities out there um. I think, as we have other episodes, we'll make sure that um we kind of highlight some of those because there's some amazing ones that folks can tap into.
Speaker 1:Yep, where you're just not on the island. Who wants to? Like you know, maybe some people want that, but the average person probably doesn't want to just start from scratch. Like we want to be able to go to a group of people or a resource site or something like that and figure out how to get the ball rolling. You know, have the snowball kind of going downhill versus kind of pushing the rock up. To the right analogy, I would guess. Why make a mistake on your own when you can learn from somebody else?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely, absolutely that's perfect way to end it off.
Speaker 2:I love it, I love it all. Right before we close out and leave the final question like closing question, that I think, um, I don't know, we'll just round this out really, really well, is like kenny, why do you still podcast?
Speaker 1:and then I'll answer it after you uh, I would say I still podcast because, um, I haven't talked to all the founders yet that look like me yeah all right.
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of founders of creating amazing products, uh, offering amazing solutions to their communities, um, to communities that look like me and you, or just underserved communities in general, and so, you know, as long as there's founders out there that look like me and you right, black founders that are doing amazing things, I got to figure out how I can highlight them and spotlight what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Maybe it gets to a point you know, got the the right uh dollar sign or right amount of commas in my bank account where I can give them investments and do some of those things as well. But this is my way of just investing in them. Um, you know, for now, with the resources that I have, and then as I build and I see them build right, I think it'll be like a beneficial situation for me to make sure that I'm spotlighting their stories. I can grow as they grow, and so, yeah, just most for sure, I haven't talked to all the amazing black founders out there, so I'm looking for this is a call to all the founders- out there the black founders out there, please hit me up.
Speaker 1:I'd love to have you on as a guest for the platform.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's dope. That's really cool. I love that. Go on the show, amazing host. I had an amazing time when I was on there. Come through, come through, come through.
Speaker 2:Let's see why do I still podcast? I mean, besides the fact that I love it, I think that there is a hunger for myself, but also for so many people that just are exhausted and tired of the non-productive or unproductive back and forth that happens at comment sections. I think that there are people out there that, like you know, we were talking off camera. It's just like you know, folks, just folks will lose their mind and say things they would never say to a person on the internet, and for me, that's like draining.
Speaker 2:It's emotionally draining, it's psychologically draining, especially when it comes to like things that have to do with, um, my blackness, black people, um, uh, or any other person that has a marginalized identity of like people just like coming, just not really willing to like engage in an actual conversation, and so, you know, I just like creating space to like ask questions, um, to be okay with doubt and being pushed to think more critically and think more deeply and purposely and intentionally about how we're navigating the world, and I can have conversations like that all the day. Actually, that is like life-giving to me. So, very similarly to you, there are so many amazing and truly beautiful stories out there that have not been shared, that haven't been explored, or, if they have been explored, they haven't been explored in a way that honors the person that's telling it, honors the storyteller, and so I want to do that, and that's what I'm going to do with some of the themes and topics that we cover on my show. So if you're interested in having a conversation like that, or want to explore conversations like that, or have a need and a desire for conversations like that, check out.
Speaker 2:Highly Visible and A Little Misunderstood. I would love to interview, love to interview you. Have you part of the community, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll you know. Just, I've listened to plenty of Jonathan's episodes and I can really kind of state like for me, being a black male, right, I looked at some of your content and it's like all right, like Jonathan, is he's not necessarily handling this, being a black male, right?
Speaker 1:I looked at some of, uh, your content and it's like, all right, like jonathan, is he's not necessarily handling this, these conversations, in a way where you know like there's, it's not clickbait it's not just like, all right, let's just see the comments and people arguing about, like, when it comes to things like what black masculinity is, those types of topics, and you really you do a really good job of. Hey, here's who I am, like I can ask questions, but I'm not necessarily going to ask questions to steer you to think like me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if that makes sense. No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I appreciate dialogue like that versus we all know the content that's out there. When it comes to black masculinity in particular, I can speak to that. Uh, it is really toxic. It's so toxic yes, it is like maybe we can do an episode on that I don't know, I don't know. I'm praying if we do episode on it we'll be able to that type of like energy and that type of pause I don't think we should we all know what I'm talking about you go in the comment section and it's just like the same kind of stereotypical conversation.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you for having conversations that steer us away from that deliberately I appreciate you if that makes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. I appreciate you, that's so affirming. I appreciate you, that's so affirming. I appreciate you, brother, appreciate you. Yeah, yeah, well, this has been fun.
Speaker 1:This has been a great first talk for me. Jonathan, I'll pass it over to you, but I'm definitely looking forward to sharing more with the folks about my platform and your platform and, just you know, giving them a peek of how we run.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that this is um, this is just an idea and shout out I want to just shout you out, kenny, like you came up with this. You hit me up. I was like I want to do something like this, like, let's like, just try, um, and I love experimenting, like that's.
Speaker 2:I think that that's my word this year is just try shit out, try stuff out, um, and so like, yeah, there's there an agenda, but it's more of a conversation and, yeah, just a real dialogue about, about our experiences potting and hopefully folks get some. Actually, I know folks I'm not going to say hope, I know folks got some value out of this and hopefully it's affirming that's what I'll say. Hopefully it's affirming and impactful for them to keep going, to start whatever. So, yeah, that's that's all I got. I guess you could check out our shows beyond normal with with Kenny and then highly visible and a little misunderstood, with myself, and I think all of both of our shows can be found everywhere. Right, yours can be found everywhere, yeah, so check us out y'all. Thanks so much for tapping in. Appreciate you, appreciate you, appreciate it, peace.
