Creator Economy: Kacie Lauder’s Shift from Theater to Podcasts

In this episode, join us as we delve into the artistic journey of Kacie Lauder, a visionary in the world of digital media and podcast production. Discover how Kacie’s passion for storytelling and her innovative approach to digital content have set new standards in the podcasting industry. From early challenges to her current successes, Kacie shares insights that are invaluable for anyone looking to make a mark in digital media.

Listen in to learn about the evolution of podcast formats, the importance of diverse voices in media, and how Kacie crafts compelling narratives that resonate with a wide audience. Whether you’re a content creator or a media enthusiast, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge on navigating and succeeding in the dynamic world of podcasting.

Thanks for tuning into the Beyond Normal Podcast!

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Connect with Kacie and learn more about the latest in her media journey at http://www.couldbeprettycool.com

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Transcript

Intro: 0:12

Uh,

Kenny: 0:29

Welcome. Welcome everybody to another great episode of the beyond normal podcast. I'm your host, Kenny groom. Uh, we're going to get right into things. Uh, we, we have somebody who is a fellow podcaster on, uh, they have their own, uh, creative studio. Uh, but I just thought, you know, with this season, season six that we're in, we're switching things up. Uh, founders are across different industries. And so I want to make sure that I show some love. So show some appreciation. Appreciate it. Uh, to fellow, uh, creators. So without further ado, I'm going to bring up the founder of Could Be Pretty Cool. And her name is Kacie Luaders. So without further ado, let's go ahead and bring her on the stage. How's it going, Kacie?

Kacie: 1:13

Kenny. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you.

Kenny: 1:16

Yes, yes, yes. Um, we're both living Uh, similar lives at this point, um, from a creative perspective, but you're, you know, the path that you're taking, being a founder, starting something on your own, that's unique to you. So we want to make sure that our guests, uh, get a good, uh, idea of the journey that you've been on to get to this point. Uh, so could you just start us out? Let us know a little bit before, uh, you started could be pretty cool. Like what were you doing? Uh, were there any inclinations to you being a founder prior to you starting this company?

Kacie: 1:48

Absolutely. So, could be pretty cool. Formally started on paper in December of 2019, but we didn't actually, like, become a thing thing until, I would say, May of 2020. Before I knew what a podcast was before I knew anything about the industry or that I would be a part of it. Um, I was working primarily in live theater. So both on the admin side, doing marketing and fundraising for nonprofit theaters here in Atlanta, and also on the audio side. So I did sound design for different plays all throughout the Metro Atlanta area. And that's kind of what I did. Um, circa. April 2020 when all of the live theater, uh, closed because of the pandemic. Um, I found myself with a lot of extra time on my hands. And fortunately that is also when everyone started podcasts. And I was like, Oh, guess we have to do the pivot thing, figure out how to continue. eating food and living indoors and that's kind of where it could be pretty cool. The company formalized and it's, it's part of what I've been doing ever since.

Kenny: 3:04

I love that. As you were speaking, you mentioned during the pandemic, we all know what that did to the world. Um, but that's a weird time, right? Because people are consuming so much content, right? But you being in the theater space, right? There's, there's like this really big shift that needs to, to happen. while people are clamoring for content, you can't necessarily go to the theater or go to the stage where you're used to giving them that content. Like talk a little bit about like, how did that, like, how did that feel? Like, I don't, I I'm, I'm trying to get a good idea, uh, a little bit more of an idea of what you were going through, because again, the world was clamoring for Netflix and chill, right? The moments families were doing this in mass. Yeah. But then here's somebody like you, who's creating content for a living and you can't necessarily do it.

Kacie: 4:00

It was humbling. Um, it was definitely humbling to see how quickly an entire industry could disappear. Because of circumstances beyond anyone's control. I think that the theater industry did a really good job of like figuring things out. That's when we started seeing more innovation with live streams of performances or, you know, some theaters were finding ways to do maybe one person shows and just recording them. And, you know, there was a lot of innovation going on, including radio plays. A lot of radio plays came back, a lot of like outdoor things that people could drive, you know, through and see people outside on the stage performing. Um, while it was really bizarre and frankly a little bit scary, I will say that there was a spirit of that, that kind of like the show must go on nature really did, you know, kick in for a lot of folks. And so, There was also a lot of innovation and a lot of the rules being thrown out of the window because no one had experienced a time when we literally could not gather together and make work. So it was, I guess, humbling would really be the, the sentiment I would stand on. But also, like a lot of things during that time, We figured out things in a way that we never would have had to if we didn't have these challenging circumstances. And I think a lot of that as entrepreneurs and creative entrepreneurs is what we do every day. So, yeah.

Kenny: 5:42

Yeah. There, there's some of that, like, uh, like that grit is built into the journey as a, as a creative, right? You, you have to really figure things out as we, you know, most people know, some may not know, like living as a creative, right. And that's, and that's your nine to five. The pays aren't always. You know what they should be. And so you really do have to figure things out. And so some of that is built into your DNA, but I'm curious. Um, from a entrepreneur perspective, like, did you have any experiences with it prior to the pandemic that may have prepared you for this point that you're at now, where you, you have this company, like you said, pen to paper, and now it's a, uh, an official business out in the world that you're doing things with. Like, were there any experiences prior to the pandemic, um, that you, that you drew upon

Kacie: 6:40

Maybe none that I was aware of at the time. I would say in my role as a sound designer for theater, that was freelance. And so I was. Contract, you're on a show 2 3 months, then you're done, you get your check, you move on to the next thing. And so, While I was doing that for like four or five years, I guess I didn't connect that like, Oh, I as an independent contractor am a small business in a way. Like if I don't show up and do the work, I'm not going to get more work. And therefore me as a small business. I'm not going to exist. Um, that wasn't like, again, like consciously what I was thinking, but that definitely ended up sort of weaving its way when I became a business and, you know, went through the secretary of state and got the business license. That is like, Oh, it's the same thing. Even though now I've moved on to podcasts. If I don't deliver things on time for a client, if I deliver something that is not up to what we discussed or up to a standard, I'm not going to continue working with this client if, you know, I don't show up as my best self, if we're not doing what we were hired to do. We're not going to continue to work. And so I think a lot of that scrappy mentality as a freelancer definitely like drives me now, but I guess even like in this interview, I didn't make the connection until like just now, like, Oh yeah, I guess so, but I didn't know it.

Kenny: 8:15

and that, and that's okay. Like, um, you know, there's, there's certain things that are just embedded in our story, right. And we were, you're moving, like you're figuring things out. And then later on, maybe when you have some time to reflect. You know, you start to like piece things together. Like, Oh yeah, that experience did help me out. Um, you know, somewhat, I'm curious, like you made this decision to start something on your own. Typically people go to their inner circle first, uh, family, close friends, and they tell them, I'm curious, like, what was that experience? Like, what was the feedback you got? Um, tell me yours and I'll be more than happy to tell you, uh, mine as well.

Kacie: 8:57

Sure. So again, I think in my case, I was sitting in the house and at the time I was staying with my parents because of like other circumstances, but it all worked out cause you know, they couldn't leave the house anyway. Um, and so when I was like, yeah, I'm, I had participated in 2019 in a workshop sort of bootcamp style program through Spotify for women of color to learn about podcasting. And so. That was really my first entryway into learning about the podcast industry, but I had no intentions of actually really pursuing it as a career. And so when I was like, yeah, I'm going to make podcasts now, I'm going to try to license and sell podcasts and do work for other people. I think there was, because I've always been in the arts, a little bit of like, Oh, this is like another, art school thing that Kacie's doing. Um, but it wasn't until the opportunity started popping up and I was able to start, you know, making a living off of this, that my family especially was like Oh, I still don't know what this is, but apparently it's a thing. So yay. Um, and I would definitely say, and I would love to learn about your experience with this 2020. So I would say maybe into 2021, beginning of 22, it felt like a. Renaissance for indie creators. It felt like there were more opportunities to get heard and seen and people were taking chances. And so building a company at that time, it was like, Oh, she does appear to be succeeding and working like this is great. As things have sort of, um, I'll say, uh, course corrected in the podcast industry, I think that there, there tends to be on my end like a little more explaining to do like, well, no, I'm not doing the big major show, but I have this client or I'm not doing, you know, something that I'm traveling around the country, but I am still doing stuff. A little bit more of that's happening now, but yeah, I will be curious to know about your origin story. And then also if you have any thoughts about like the way the industry has shifted over the past couple of years.

Kenny: 11:16

Yeah, for sure. Um, it's really cool. I just want to say being on with a, another podcaster,'cause they asked me questions. Uh, and it gives, it gives me a chance to sit on the other side of the, of the camera to, to some extent for me it was, um, the listeners have like, you know, see me like give bits and pieces of this, but I'll definitely try to put it together concisely. I was corporate America my entire life. Um, majored in mathematics, worked at a lot of the big banks here in Charlotte, North Carolina. And so my whole career was just career guy, you wear a suit every day, you know, stuff like that. And so I, the pandemic for me was, you mentioned like this renaissance. It was this period for me of like, it was refreshing for me because I was like, well, I can stop wearing my suit now. I don't have to, there's not this expectation, like I'm going into the office. We're still doing things virtually from a corporate perspective, but I started to interact with more and more creatives. Like you mentioned the creative, um, like that period, right? That 2020, 2021. And so it was really cool and refreshing. I connected with so many different black people from different walks of life that that was what drew me into like, Hey, how do I like start telling stories on my own? Like, who can I connect with? And I use the lens of, well, I come from corporate America. I want to focus on business because I feel like that's where I can add some value for folks, right? Who, who I can frame it the right way. Cause that's what I'm used to. But I can still looking at all these amazing black creatives that I'm interacting with still feel, make it my own. And so from those interactions on, uh, apps like clubhouse, all kinds of different, just different spaces. Like I was on forums, I don't know why I was on the forums, but it was just amazing. I was connecting with again, black excellence across different industries. And so that's what made me say, Hey, you know what, like, even if I do still do a nine to five. This podcasting thing, I can, um, you know, build it out more. And I think when I told my inner circle, they was like, Oh, this is a hobby of Kenny's. Right. But then when I started to go from five episodes, 10 episodes, 20 to 30, 40. Like even some of them afterwards came to me and they was like, Oh yeah, I always saw you doing something like this on your own. You're making it your own. It's what you want to make it. And they saw me doing things like this with my life. And so, um, you know, at first it was that blind just support. Hey, I'll click on Kenny's link on Facebook, Instagram, whatever the social media outlet was. Um, but then they started to see I was more committed and I was putting time and energy and money into it. They, they, they started to embrace it a little bit more. At times they still don't know, like, you know, the elders in my family, they're not going to necessarily, like you said, they're just like, Oh, this is just something Kenny's doing. Um, and as long as Kenny's happy doing it, content, you know, they're willing to support.

Kacie: 14:23

Absolutely. Like two things that I just want to put out and then I'm gonna let you get back to your interview. I'm sorry. Um, number one, shout out to clubhouse. Like I did not realize how instrumental that was in that like 2021 period of. Still being able to network and to be able to network with people who otherwise I never would have talked to or met. And some are still folks who like, I'm, you know, we've worked together now we've been on each other's projects. We've like done stuff. So I love that you mentioned clubhouse. And then the second thing I love that you come from, from corporate America. I think that for some reason, still, In the creative community. There's still a lot of like if you're not doing this full time That you're not serious about it or you're not No, we all again. We need to eat. We need to live indoors and not everyone wants to make their creative passion their projects the main thing that they're doing to survive because It, it sometimes can feel like a chore. And so for like people listening, I want everyone to feel valid in whatever their creative path is. If it is, I have my nine to five and I do my painting and go to art shows on the weekends. Or if it's, you know, I want to be a full time painter and this is all I ever want to do. And I'm going to pursue this full time forever. Everybody's journey is valid. So just want to shout out those points.

Kenny: 15:51

Great, great points. Um, many founders, not very many founders specifically in, um, Minority communities are going to have that ability to go out and just start their business. And then, like you said, not, you know, not worry about paying the bills and doing all these other things. And so it's just a natural part of it. For most founders, um, you have to juggle, it's a skill set you're going to have to manage. Um throughout your time founding your business while also making sure you know, your your nucleus is secure And so I appreciate you for for calling that out because that's something Consistently i've heard uh from the founders that we've had on is just you know balancing that You know family dynamic, you know things that happen While pursuing your passion. And then hopefully you get to that point where that passion project turns into a full fledged business. And you can just solely work on that and be happy, uh, and excited every single day, waking up. Uh, we, we know that that's, that's not always going to be the case. Uh, so

Kacie: 16:53

yeah.

Kenny: 16:54

talk to me a little bit about, uh, how the experience of being a founder has been, um, from a learning perspective, you mentioned being a creative, it sounds like you've been a lifelong creative, so I'm curious. Like what are some of those moments of learning, um, that you've had so far, um, as you've built out, uh, could be pretty cool.

Kacie: 17:17

So I would say, uh, sticking with the, the humbling theme, uh, some of the most humbling things I've had to learn are creating things for yourself and creating things for other people. Meaning like someone hires you to make a thing for them. Are not the same process and that's fine. And you have to deal with it early. I think some of my earliest gigs of like coming onto someone else's show as an associate producer or production coordinator, um, I would come in with the mentality of like, Oh, well, I would do it this way because X and if the person in charge is like, that's not how we do it, we're not going to do that. I would take it very personally. It's like the, well, why did you hire me then? Well, you know, what am I even here for? But I've come to the point now where I'll just be like, okay, I'm going to figure out some way to document that I have given my suggestions so that ultimately if something happens in the end, I can't be like, I didn't try to sell you, but it's not my show. And so I'm just here to support your show. I'm just here to support your work, your narrative, and ultimately being that person showing up, doing the best for other people, as I mentioned earlier, is how you get asked to come back. It's how you get recommended for the next thing. If you're showing up on other people's stuff, trying to dictate their world, they're not going to want you around. They're not going to tell other people about you. So that was kind of learning. Number one, learning number two, I guess. Okay. Business wise. I mean, there's just so much that I went to school undergrad for music and minored in theater. I went to grad school for sound. So my whole education has been in the arts that whole time. I maybe took a business class, but not a business class that was specific for creator businesses like that. Wasn't a thing that existed. And so just kind of the realities of this is, you know, articles in corporation, you need this kind of license to do this. This is how you separate your money. Don't still don't ask me a thing about taxes. Like my Lord, 2021 was the most humbling year financially for me. When I got that tax bill from getting all these 10 99s and I'm like, we, I'm doing it. Good Lord. Um, so there's just a lot, I think of business one on one proper that I unfortunately had to learn by experiencing versus someone saying, by the way, make sure you're setting aside. X, y, Z dollars, you know, set up a quarterly payment system, et cetera. Um, and I would say the third thing that I'm really starting to learn now is that I don't have to do the things that I hate. I can, I can hire someone else to do it. And yes, that's always the toss up between, okay, I'm coming outta my bag. But again, that thing of like. the thing that you love turning into a chore is what I'm trying to avoid. Contrary to popular belief, even if you work for yourself, you can burn out. And because we often don't have the same type of like, okay, nine to five done. Okay. Saturday, Sunday, I'm not working kind of filters around us. We can probably burn out faster working for ourselves. And so You know, we're heading into year five. I've just recently been like, I hate editing. I really do. I know someone who's really good at it. I'm going to just have to pay them to do it for me rather than hate my life all week, you know? So yeah, I would say those are the three biggest learnings for me so far. And, but learning every single day, seriously.

Kenny: 21:10

Yeah, you just dropped some gems there. Um, I'm not going to touch on all three. I will just say, um, amazing, uh, feedback and taxes. You are not alone. Uh, I'm scared to do taxes on my own or touch any document that has to do with taxes. And so I can imagine, um, looking at 10 99s. I've done that before as well. Uh, through my business and, uh, it can get muddy, uh, very quickly and you can end up owning, um, Uncle Sam, a lot of money. So, uh, commend you for going through that experience and you're here today. Um, and so, uh, you know, that means things are progressing, uh, quite nicely, but appreciate you being transparent. I think there's always, you know, parts of the business, right. Unless we've actually gone through the experience of running our business, a business before. Right. There's going to be parts that, um, that are going to be learning experiences for us. You mentioned the parts. Why do stuff that you hate? Uh, that's something that I feel like is one of like my, I don't want to call it a commandments of life, but that is where I'm at in this point in my life. Definitely not trying to do too many things that I hate. And if there's a AI robot out there that I'll do it, or a human being who enjoys doing it, uh, I'm usually willing to pay. For that service, um, and you touched on something there. Um, there's this, uh, there's this consistent theme I'm hearing as I'm talking to founders, specifically in the creator space, um, around just like B2B businesses that support creators, you know, the creator economy. Um, I'm always interested in, I'm always plugging, uh, for those who are listening, who don't have a business yet, if you want to support creatives. We have a creative here, uh, Kacie, who just told you there's parts of her business that she's looking to not do, and she's willing to, you know, have somebody partner with. And B2B specifically is a space where I don't think there's enough. Founders, but I'm hoping that, you know, over the next couple of years, we see somewhat of a course correction there, uh, specifically for the creator economy.

Kacie: 23:20

I hope so, too. Just want to say that. Okay,

Kenny: 23:23

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, um, one of the taglines I saw online for, uh, could be pretty cool. Uh, you're producing unique, uh, creative experiences on that inspire community building through the arts. And so I want, I want you to tell folks a little bit, About like what's currently like, you know, on the docket for the company, like, what can they expect to see as they, you know, they engage with the brand and, um, you know, just what, what can they look forward to, uh, you know, coming from, uh, your media production company. And I know you're doing a whole host of things, but you know, and, you know, if I were to label it one thing, I would definitely say you're a media company, but, you know, just give folks a little idea as they connect with your brand, what, what they can look forward to.

Kacie: 24:09

sure thing. So right now we are expanding our coverage on could be pretty cool news, which is our flagship podcast that actually is all about creative entrepreneurship. So on every episode we interview someone who works as either a researcher or an academic or ecosystem builder, an expert in some way. Um, about the creator economy, just because, you know, a lot of times when we hear creator economy, the first thing people think about is like, Oh, you know, A TikToker with 20 million followers who makes a living off of brand deals. Like, yes, that is a type of person in the creator economy, but most people, they're, they look like us. They're folks who do this as a passion. They do this as a thing they're trying to grow. They do this in the trenches for years and years before that big opportunity comes, if it ever comes realistically. And so. We want to be more conscious about actually talking about the data and the numbers and the trends and the research as more of these conversations are starting to be had conversations like those that are had on your program. Um, this is relatively new hearing founders in different spaces, just talk about how they got started or, you know, hot takes or things that they've learned. Um, and so we feature an expert and we feature a narrative strategist. Story from a creator or an independent artist basically just like tell us your story. How did you get started? What are things that you learned again? Just to continue putting out into the ecosystem content about realness about creators. And so, um, we featured costume designers. We featured, uh, uh, composers. We featured, uh, Comedians, um, folks who are working in the arts and creative fields. And we really are just like, tell us how you are doing it. Tell us what you would want someone to tell you five years ago. Um, and so. That is our, our current program that we work on internally. We did some live events in May, um, where we did some live podcast recordings. So looking to do some more like community building with creators to get more input. Um, and then, yeah, we, we produce stuff for other people, as I mentioned, working with some nonprofits, some universities to produce their, um, podcast. But yeah, we are. Very excited about the way that could be pretty cool. News is letting us tell stories about other creators.

Kenny: 26:53

Yeah, I, uh, you know, as you were talking about, you were mentioned about, you know, costume designers, you know, people that are in different elements of art. Um, that that brought me back to You know, just, uh, the different ways I look for folks to support, you know, beyond normal, for example, I'm not a, I'm not a music expert. Um, I don't know how to play instruments, right. Um, and certain aspects. And so far our intro song, you know, I reached out to a producer, right. And so that was an example of, okay. You know, whatever their, their, their service fee was like, I'm willing to pay for that because then I know it's like, it's a quality product. They give me some options. That's somebody, you know, as you were thinking, like there's different ways that this economy flows and the dollars flow in and out of, you know, our pockets, but in certain instances, it, you know, that dollar that you spend with the creative, it definitely makes sure that the economy grows even further. And then I'm able to be supported. Um, my business is supported. My podcast is supported with a, a quality song on that. I don't have to worry about clearance and copyright and all those good things because they do a lot of that stuff for me.

Kacie: 28:05

Absolutely.

Kenny: 28:06

Introducing folks to that, I could see there's some benefit for, for your listeners because then they can tap in with those individuals. Um, and that's definitely something I think that aligns in it is along the same path that we're, we're going with beyond normal as well.

Kacie: 28:21

Oh yeah. You can clearly tell you're a creator conscious brand. You have your logo designed, you have design on, on your hat. Like that is exactly the point of what we're trying to illustrate. Like, again, you don't have to be a content creator, Tik TOK dancer, which is great. We love. Please get your bag, however you get it. But the creator economy consists of so many different types of folks and we can plug in really in, in so many different types of places for so many different types of businesses. So you demonstrate that with, with your brand.

Kenny: 28:57

I appreciate that. Uh, one question I got to ask, um, I've asked quite a few creatives that I've been interviewing, uh, recently. Like, how do you look at, um, the, the, uh, the focus on AI and I'll give you an example, right? Um, you mentioned you were in the theater. Um, I, uh, I know that Disney, for example, right? Like they've gone away from the sets where there's like explosions everywhere and doing all these things, right? So they have like this one big ass screen, if I can call it that. And then a lot of the stuff happens in the background and they can make it look like you. It's actually real and it's happening and there's this big, you know, they're on acres and acres of land, but it's really all happening in front of this screen. Like, like, what are, what are your thoughts around, uh, AI and that sort of, That direction that it's going, um, for creatives like yourself and just others that are coming up, like, what, what, what does that mean? What's the impact of, of seeing some of these things, uh, come to fruition?

Kacie: 30:02

Sure. So I'm actually cautiously optimistic about being team AI, uh, as you mentioned earlier, um, using AI to do some of the tasks that not necessarily that I hate, but things like writing show notes, for example, for episodes, or even just, you know, summarize this transcript and pull out some good quotes that could be used for a social promotion. Like that's something that Could have taken hours. Goodness, this time last year even. And so, I think for creators, a lot of those administrative tasks, those repetitive tasks, having more time to actually do stuff by using AI, um, definitely a plus. Another on the plus column, I actually just saw the Venice Film Festival this year is doing an AI shorts competition. And so it's, you can submit a short film that's made with any of the AI tools. It can be all AI, hybrid. And so there could be a kid right now in his bedroom. Who has been dreaming of going to a film festival, making a film, but hasn't had the money or the funding or the support. And it's like, Oh, but I can figure this out. And now this person has an opportunity to have their work seen all over the world. I think that for indie creators who don't have. the resources to get their hands on the fire and the, you know, special effects pulled in. AI could also be a great kind of starting off point to show people, this is what I can do with these tools that I have. Now that you see that, like. Maybe give me some more some more bread. I can show you really what I can do. Um, but I would say most of my cautiousness, um really is more about the I guess sort of big corporations aspirations with ai so I you know, I recognize that the role of the corporation is to make money for stakeholders and if they can find a way to Get rid of humans or replace You Things that humans used to do with AI. They're going to do it to get more money for stakeholders. So I just hope that there is going to be a balance moving forward with opportunities for indie folks and folks who are already kind of in the industry to like, Keep their jobs.

Kenny: 32:26

Well said, um, I've heard, uh, similar pros and cons from other creatives. Uh, I, myself, I feel like I'm, I'm new to this space. And so. I'm more of a sponge. And so I want to ask somebody like you, who's really been living this, uh, the, this life for quite some time. What, what do you see from the pros and the cons? Uh, but I completely agree with you, right? There's gotta be some balance. Um, I can see, you know, in the foreseeable future, right. There being a significant push by consumers to see, um, indie, indie, more indie products, projects, or just like see something different. Like there's only so many shades. I hate to harp on just this one brand. There's only so many costumes I want to see Mickey Mouse wear, um, before we start to change it up and try to, all right, like, what are the, what's the, what's the new version of that, um, for the next, you know, generation that's coming up? Like, what are, who are these characters that they're going to be connected to? It's okay if they're not the characters that I watch, right? I think that's, that's, that should be something we're okay with, uh, versus saying we're going to have the same character, uh, be on all the commercials and everything for a hundred years straight. I don't think that's reasonable. So I'm excited to see those new, fresh ideas. Like you said, those kids that are coming up, how they leverage the tool I'm already seeing with, uh, My nephew and just my little cousins, how they leverage AI for some of the graphics. And they do some really cool things that, um, I was not doing at their age.

Kacie: 33:59

And that's what we have to remember. Yeah. When CDs were coming out, there were people ahead of us like ill CDs. Tape is the only way to go. You know, it's just, it's the nature of technology is going to be another generation. Growing up with a whole new set of tools to play with that is going to completely blow our minds.

Kenny: 34:18

Got it. And so, uh, in closing, I want to thank you so much, uh, Kacie, for coming on, uh, just sharing, you know, a little bit about your story. Uh, folks can, can obviously follow up, tell them, uh, I guess two things, tell them how they can connect with the brand. What's the best way. For them to stay, uh, you know, present and see, you know, uh, what's coming along for, uh, could be pretty cool. And then just the last thing comment you want us to close out on. I'm going to make sure the floor is yours. Let our, you know, whatever our listeners need to remember for them from this conversation, let them know what they need to take away.

Kacie: 34:53

Sure thing. So yes, you can find us at could be pretty cool. com. Um, at could be pretty cool on Instagram and LinkedIn. And I guess any takeaway would be don't do things that you hate. Of course, there's going to be some inevitable parts of running a business that aren't always going to be fun. There's not always going to be easy. But building something that is yours, building something that comes from you, shouldn't come from a place of like, suffering. And this is a lot of do as I say, not as I do. Um, but yeah, don't do things that you hate. Why? Life is, life is way too short.

Kenny: 35:36

Perfect way to end it. Uh, thank you for coming on again, Kacie. And for our listeners, thanks for tuning in to another great episode of the beyond normal podcast. Peace.

Kacie: 35:46

Bye.