Empowering Black Girls in Math with Atiyah Harmon

In this episode, we dive into the transformative world of educational equity with Atiyah Harmon, the founder of Black Girls Love Math. Learn about Atiyah’s mission to eliminate gender and racial disparities in math education, and how her innovative programs are empowering Black girls to excel in mathematics. From her early days as an educator to her current initiatives, Atiyah shares her journey and the profound impact of her work.

Tune in to discover the challenges and triumphs of changing educational paradigms, the importance of culturally responsive teaching, and how Atiyah is crafting a legacy of empowerment and excellence. Whether you’re an educator, a parent, or an advocate for educational equity, this episode offers deep insights into making a lasting difference in the lives of students.

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Learn more about Atiyah’s impactful work and connect with her initiatives at Black Girls Love Math.

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Transcript

Kenny: 0:28

Welcome everybody to another great episode of the beyond normal podcast. I'm your host, Kenny groom. Uh, we've been building, having incredible conversations with founders. Uh, I actually met our guests today. Um, I saw her profile on LinkedIn. And, uh, she is actually focusing on a topic that's near and dear to me, which is mathematics, uh, more specifically black girls in mathematics. And so I thought, why not have her on, as we know, uh, the world is going, uh, kind of STEM crazy in terms of careers right now. And so mathematics, just with me being an undergrad in that, in that specialty, in that, uh, concentration, I thought, why not, uh, really dig into that a little bit, because this is going to be an area. Uh, where we're going to definitely want to see, uh, more black individuals. Dive into this space and we got to figure out how to, how to tell the right story with them. Uh, so I'm going to introduce our next guest. Her name is Atiyah Harmon. She is the founder of black girls love math, which is on a mission to exponentially increase the number of black girls in STEM. Uh, they provide, uh, afterschool enrichment programs and mentorship and overall they're just making it, You know, making it cool for black individuals to enjoy math. So without further ado, I'm going to bring it to you to the stage. How's it going?

Atiyah: 1:55

It's going well. I'm excited to be here.

Kenny: 1:58

Yes, yes, yes. Uh, we, we, we, we touch base, uh, a while ago, um, schedules align now. And so I definitely wanted to make sure we connected. Can you, uh, tell us a little bit about. Um, prior to starting black girls love math. Like what were you doing? What were you focusing on? What were you passionate about?

Atiyah: 2:21

Uh, I think black girls love math is an extension of that passion. So I have been in education since 2002 and just working in different capacities from the classroom to school building leadership to network leadership. I focused on education equity, specifically in mathematics. And based on those experiences and then doing some larger research saw the need for an opportunity to solve a problem, which frustrated me, which was black girls, not, not having the capacity, but not feeling welcomed in this space to strive, um, further in mathematics and kind of checking out. I was a person that stayed in middle school area. So to see the girls be excited to them, self proclaim, I'm not a math person, just didn't sit right with me. So I sought to create this to kind of solve the problem.

Kenny: 3:13

Appreciate that breakdown. And so since we're, we're talking mathematics, uh, we're going to be talking some numbers, obviously throughout this conversation. Is there a stat that goes along with this passion and the impact that drove you into creating the organization? Is there a stat out there that you want to highlight?

Atiyah: 3:31

Sure. Uh, the major stat is 2 percent of stem careers are black women. Um, so our goal is to exponentially increase that. And if you think about the exponential increase of 8 percent that's still a very low number, but, um, I've met with people who work at Comcast here in Philadelphia and they're like, yeah, I'm the only woman on the floor using the bathroom. Um, so this isn't like old news. This is current. Um, the representation of the STEM force. So that's where we use to strive our data. That's where we can get our data from. Alphas.

Kenny: 4:07

guess what we would call like a stretch goal. Like you said, getting it up to 8%. It doesn't even really seem that hot, right? Like to your point, but we understand we got to make these, you know, we got to make these step increases versus, you know, just one day magically all these problems being probably not going to be the case. So I want to know a little bit about, um, I think a big part of an organization like this. Is creating, I guess I would call it maybe like a culturally responsive, uh, instruction style, right? So kids, the, the generation that is now, I believe, are they Gen Zs? Am I getting that right Atiyah? Or is there one after?

Atiyah: 4:52

I've heard a lot of them.

Kenny: 4:53

Okay, so yeah, I think you're right. I think we're on Gen Alpha now. Uh, sorry for those who are out there maybe listening in those, uh, those groups. I don't know all of what, what we're calling it now, but I think it is Gen Alpha. So they're, they're learning, they're taking in the world differently. They're essentially being born with, with smartphones in their hands. Um, even if we try to limit it, um, as much as we can, there's definitely that component there. Like, what are you seeing about the way that they're learning now? That you're having to build into, um, the curriculum and just the, the, the way that you're instructing. That is,

Atiyah: 5:31

a really good question. I think that, When you think about just being in education so long and seeing how technology is it like, and I'm a tech person, maybe not as much as you, but I'm a tech person. We actually don't use tech in our programming, um, on purpose because there, we, we started during COVID, right? We started in 2020. So our, our first piloted girls were 2021. They still had to be six feet with the mask on. But there's a lack of interpersonal collaboration that we're very intentional with a part of our community. We say that we build a sisterhood collaborative. Don't ask me the problems at your sisters first. So, the only time we use tech is we'll do a tick tock or Instagram, and then towards the end of our programming with schools, we do a social justice project where they have to find stats and do some presentations. It's not that it doesn't exist, but I'm not anti calculator or anything like that, but like we don't make tech a strong focus of our programming because it's just everywhere is ubiquitous, right? So it's like, how do you make people not have to solve things with tech just in case something shuts down or there's a glitch, right? How can you still cooperate and collaborate?

Kenny: 6:50

uh, I'm just trying to think, like, I can think back to when I first started to enjoy math. I didn't have the calculator, right? I had a pen and a paper or a pencil, a number two pencil. Uh, hopefully I still use number two pencils and I'm not dating

Atiyah: 7:11

Yeah.

Kenny: 7:11

I just remember being able to solve the problem out of my own way. And that was magic to me.

Atiyah: 7:18

hmm.

Kenny: 7:19

Right? So to your point, I understand taking the device away because the device it hides that it hides. How do you get there and just gives you the answer. And as long as you manipulate the device the right way, you can always get an answer. But for me, I just joy and going through, I found a lot more joy in going through the calculation and explaining the why myself.

Atiyah: 7:42

Yeah, our girls in Brooklyn, um, we were doing a challenge. They were, are brilliant. And I asked them like, Hey, this is pretty heavy. Do you all want to use calculator? And they're like, no, no, we don't need any chat GPS. She was like seven. So I'm like, you were saying the wrong thing, but in terms of the ability to write it out and what you see, like I said, I am not a person that's anti calculator, but especially when you're working with a group and they can see each other's errors, the way they catch that whole aha moment within themselves. Is less frustration at the calculator and more like, oh, okay. This is where I made this challenge or this error incorrectly.

Kenny: 8:18

Mhm. And so you just touched on something I was probably going to ask this a little later, but I might as well. You mentioned chat GPT. Let me reference this by saying, uh, as a person who, um, comes from a math background, uh, and who has experimented with chat GPT, chat GPT is rather stupid when it comes to doing math. A lot of times it literally will take. Some of the things it finds on the internet. And if those things are not mathematically sound, it'll just spit out at you. Uh, so I'm curious, like, where do you, or how do you feel about being someone who gives instruction to, uh, the future leaders, the future engineers, the future individuals who will be making decisions from a number perspective? Like how does. A tool like chat, GPT, like what do you think of it being an in,

Atiyah: 9:15

So I am, I won't say like I'm an advocate, but I'm not averse to AI. I've used it. I think it's that first step that kind of lets you kind of. Just get the basics out of the way. Right? So if you're having like a rough draft or anything like that, they can help you. It's not a perfect paragraph, anything, but it can just start those initial juices flowing. So I like to say over the last couple of years, as we saw, like what a year and a half, AI just kind of rapidly take over. So now I was at a meeting the other day, basically they're eliminating coding jobs for early stage. stages, years one through three, pretty much an A. I. Generator can do that. So my thought always, even with black girls of math is like math is the numbers. But how do you solve the problem? Right? Because it's like I don't need girls to know how to do calculations. That's a waste of time. I need you to be sophisticated enough in your work. Thought process and your data analysis to know like this math means what, how can you interpret it? So AI can't do that, right? AI can spit numbers out, it can read a code, it can tell you what's on the internet, but it can't make that next level sophistication of human process yet that I've seen that shows that there's a different level of understanding in depth in terms of how to interpret math or anything that's number related.

Kenny: 10:37

uh, t Appreciate you giving us that breakdown of, uh, AI tools and how you think of it as an instructor. You said something really important in there, um, where you're preparing, uh, your girls to be able to think critically. Um, really from a data analysis perspective, be able to answer questions, right? Um, and think through it in a way where it's not so important that you, you know, you have this, uh, this set way to give an answer, but I see value moving forward when you were touching on those early entry level jobs that are getting removed. Like those are the jobs where they'll almost like expect you to like come in with those skills already. Right. But then your girls that they got this, this way of thinking critically, they can come in and day one, add value to whatever organization they're a part of. And I just think that puts them in a position where, uh, from a career perspective, speaking quite frankly, they can make a crap ton of money, right? They can have successful career because there's already going to be this. There's already going to be this fascination with a lot of people in the business world when you have a STEM degree. Like, oh, you get, you know, you, you, you majored in engineering, you majored in mathematics, you majored in something technical. They're already coming to you because you have some of that background and now you kind of just give them that wow. When you're able to come in from day one, do the data analysis for them, right? Cause they're their business leaders. We get it. They don't want to make decisions. They want to have somebody who they feel completely confident in giving them that number that they need to move the business forward. So that really puts your girls in a really powerful position. So I appreciate you, uh, being a receptive to the AI, but then seeing it's not going anywhere. So let me position those going through my program, uh, to benefit from that completely moving forward.

Atiyah: 12:47

Absolutely.

Kenny: 12:49

So let's talk a little bit about what has so we just talked about business owners. This has gotten this got me to thinking in my brain. Like, what are some of the people the organizations that you're trying to partner with? Like, what is the reception been? Like, who are those that have been the most receptive? Maybe even an area, uh, where you don't think there's enough, uh, people coming to you, willing to write you a check or be a partner, like talk a little bit about how those partnerships have been. As you built the organization out, I got to be a little smile,

Atiyah: 13:23

I say, Kenny, you put me in a weird space. You know, we can't answer this question straightforward. Oh, I will say we've gotten a lot of partnerships from. Individual donors that work at tech companies, right? So we might not know who they are, but there's certain ways you can set up with your company that they do company matching. So we've gotten money from Deloitte, Comcast, Exelon, Microsoft. And those are people that we usually don't know. The people that we do know that sponsor, we've gotten grants from a lot of local businesses in Philadelphia. Well, like Philadelphia Foundation is one of the major grantmakers. We just got a grant from. So the Horner Foundation, which helps support our work as a nonprofit in Philadelphia, there are certain organizations we've already partnered with. Um, we, for our after school program, we partner with schools. So when schools had all the extra funds, they were coming right away. Now we're working to get grants to help support the schools. But we are working this year with learn fresh, which was does something called hoops. Um, so NBA hoops. So we'll show the girls how to use that, especially as WNBA has finally become popular. Um, we have fully used basketball, which we're looking at a partnership again with their girls specifically. Um, we have a unique positionality as an organization that we're more academia and we know How to teach black girls really well, but we don't always like we've pivoted probably in the last six months that instead of us always trying to get girls to come to us, let's let's go to where the girls already are and let's just offer our instruction and our pedagogy and our curriculum in a ways that enhance like we don't want to compete with anyone or like we have a skill set. You have a skill set. If you have the girls, let us get the work through. So we're still exploring those partnerships. Um, in Philadelphia, but right now we have three or four promising, uh, collaborations.

Kenny: 15:16

got it. So let me spin it a different way.

Atiyah: 15:19

Okay.

Kenny: 15:20

And this is just an add on, uh, feel free to, to answer, uh, how you see fit. Who is it? Is there a dream partnership? I

Atiyah: 15:28

Oh, absolutely. Um, the Girls Opportunity Alliance with the Obama Foundation. Absolutely. That's that's a easy one.

Kenny: 15:34

think there was something in there.

Atiyah: 15:35

that's a super easy one. Uh, of course, we align with, we did a, um, presentation at a research conference with black girls do STEM and black girls, math, black girl math, which was just for profit. So there's an ecosystem now building and is something that we just became a part of, of a lot of. Black girls serving STEM organizations country nationwide and international. So I love when we could all just come up with like a coalition and have events and things like that from the Black Girls Code to the Black Girls Do Engineering. It's like literally all across the country. Absolutely.

Kenny: 16:16

I could see each of the letters in STEM. Like, like you said, having a different focus, but then there's some synergy across all the groups. Right. And so nobody's stepping on each other's toes from that perspective. Like there's, there's a way to grow the total. population of people that we have in that space and we need to do that.

Atiyah: 16:34

Absolutely.

Kenny: 16:36

So let's talk a little bit about, uh, black girls love math is, and at the end of the day, it is a business deal, right? Um, I know people get caught up in the nonprofit versus for profit, but these are business entities that were created to do a certain objective. what, what's something that you, uh, as leading, um, This growing organization, what's an area where you've had to focus a little bit more just because you know, you haven't necessarily had that experience in the past. Like tell us a little bit about some of those areas of the business you've been spending more time in.

Atiyah: 17:15

Lately, uh, fundraising and revenue and building a strong, scalable business model. I'm an educator by trade, so we give stuff away to kids all the time. Oh, you need notebooks. It's okay. You need this. And I'm like, Okay. Your organization is for, you can't give everything away and your pricing is a little too cheap if everyone's saying yes quickly. Um, so it's certain things that we've had to like, like you said, even as a nonprofit, that revenue goes back into supporting a mission. I've had to be humble, but I guess like courageous enough to, I'm not a business person. Can I get a business professional to help me with our models and like best ways to scale our organization. So we just don't burn ourselves out and shut down. And, um, Learning how to fundraise and how to pitch. Like I said, I can teach, I'll teach you, I'll teach your daughter, I'll teach whomever, any given day, but learning how to say the story and obey that it reaches different audiences to want to donate and help amplify the work of Black girls is, uh, you don't have to change kind of the message, you have to change The way you say certain things to get people to not be, um, it's always a lot of challenges on when you have something specific saying black girls love math there. And that's from any, any racial demographic that will challenge that. And it's a way where I've had to learn over the last four years to not get angry, but to figure out how to best it in a way that can like supports our girls and makes me be authentic to myself.

Kenny: 18:47

I appreciate you for that, that, that, uh, being candid. That's a really great answer. Um, to me, because Being a founder at the end of the day, you're selling something, uh, 10 out of 10 times as a founder. Like I haven't found a business where you're not trying to sell somebody on something that's hard to tell folks that, but to, to what you're saying though, right? Like your angle is the same, but then how do you, that what's in it for me, for people, um, it's going to be different as to why they, um, end up writing you a big check, right? For black girls love map that why they do it may not necessarily. Be the same. Why is why you're doing it, but it aligns. And so finding that alignment,

Atiyah: 19:30

Absolutely.

Kenny: 19:32

anything that that's the, that's where the rubber meets the road. For me, um, my time in tech now with me being, uh, on the sales side, uh, that's something that I enjoy. So I appreciate you, uh, for bringing that up on, uh, our platform. And I I'm excited to see you embrace that actually, because that's something, like you said, if you've never done it in the past is because teachers. end up giving students stuff all the time and then figuring it out later, but you developing that, that, that skill now, I can see that definitely being a superpower for you moving forward because you're fully embracing it now. Like, I feel like you're at a mode where you ain't afraid to ask for the check. Correct me if I'm wrong though, Tia. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Atiyah: 20:18

in that room, I'm just on the continuum. Like I still, I won't go right away. I'll get more. Yes. And this is what we need additional funding for. This is how you can invest in us, but getting straight forward to ask for the check in the first minute, I haven't got there yet, to be honest, but that's the goal in the next couple of months.

Kenny: 20:34

worry. No worries. No worries. So tell me a little bit about, uh, how has it been Building a team out to support you finding folks. Um, as you're looking for dollars, like you said, fundraising is a big part of that, what you're doing now. Like, tell me a little bit about how you've gone about, uh, building out your team so that you can grow this thing as big as you, as you want it to be one day.

Atiyah: 21:05

Yeah, I think that's probably the part where we've been the most blessed and lucky. I didn't, I don't have a problem finding a good team. I have a problem paying a good team. So, we have, um, like I said, I was a 20 year educator. I was a principal in New York, Black Girls on Math, um, originated in Brooklyn, and then I moved to Philadelphia to kind of give myself a year off to set up the background and from my board chair to my former teachers to my, um, everyone is kind of just, I, people have told me black girls love math is me and it is a letter to my younger self. So it was just like instantly the synergy comes and I guess they see me like it's Sunday or it's Tuesday morning and you're working at 6 a. m. even though I scheduled you to send emails. I think people buy into my passion so they're able to work harder. Or work alongside that and inspire. And I, I think I'm a good manager and a good boss. So I always make sure people feel awarded and appreciate our respect boundaries. We turn off chat notifications. It's like all of those things. But I think when you think about not necessarily just me, but what black girls love math is for is not me, right. It's for the future of black loaded girls to help. And a lot of people who come to our team. Women and men like with their daughters, but women, forties fifties have cried and they were like, I don't know why I wasn't in this. I don't know. Like, I wish you were around when I was younger. It's just, it became this part where I was like, wow, I thought I was doing one thing and it actually unearthed this whole kind of like mad trauma and other type of identity issues. So I think the way They they'll still like I'll still teach, right? So people see me teach. People see our girls, our families. And I think that is a genesis to create people like I want to be behind that. She's not just trying to do it for the show. So that has allowed our team and we've just been completely honest. We stand by core values. We, you know, break bread and learn each other, but we respect each other as women or men committed to our mission.

Kenny: 23:14

That's dope. Uh, that is, I think the, That tells me that you really tapped in, like you said, those examples you've given into, like, the issue at hand with math. Like you said, you just said math trauma. there really is that in our community at times where it, for whatever reason, those first experiences that we have at a young age, um, it either, it either, uh, makes you go away from it completely. Like it kind of like forces you to like bang your head against the desk a little bit. Like, Oh, like I'm not getting this. Like, those are the experiences that I can, that I re I can recall growing up. And for whatever reason, um, it, by the time where, you know, teenagers going to pick, you know, what we're going to do next in life, there aren't that many that have said like, Hey, I want to take the path of. Mathematics or anything from a technical perspective. And so you got to ask, I appreciate you for setting this up and making sure you're, you're hitting at like the Y for people when you're, you're out there. And the fact that you've been able to build a team, like that really shows that, uh, there is, there's a meat on the bone is what I would say. I guess, right.

Atiyah: 24:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kenny: 24:41

you can really chew into here and really like, this is, this is a full course meal. What's your, what, what's your, what's your, what you're working on.

Atiyah: 24:49

Absolutely. It is. Like I said, it is telling when you, like, even myself, I was a strong math student. My mom had to remind me. She was like, you know, you were in a fourth grade math competition citywide. And I was like, oh yeah, what happened in high school? I only thought you couldn't be an accountant. Right? I was like, I don't wanna be an accountant. So I went a whole nother way and wound up coming back to the math. But the way in which. Specifically in our community, I will say, and then there's research that shows, like, girls math identity aligns to the mother, so people walking around, I'm not a math person, I'm not cringe, I'm like, the first thing is just please don't say that, because you know, when the check is short, you know, when gas prices go up, like, math doesn't always have to be solving these crazy equations, right, so to just censor math more logically, in addition to Math content will always be math content. We just present it in a way, not just, but we present it in a way that honors and centers black girls and that space doesn't always exist. So, and we say, it's okay, you can do hard things. Yup. I'm frustrated too. Let's take a break. It's like math has been the only subject that you're supposed to get right, right away, which everything else you're allowed to edit. You're allowed to revise essays. You're allowed to go back and take a test. If you don't get it right the right way, you're not a math person. That's just. It's not true and it's not the way people who do math as a profession work. So how do you like decrease this fear of if I don't get this right, I'm wrong and I'm not a math person and that's part of our work. So we do a creed in every session just to center the girl's self esteem.

Kenny: 26:25

What is what is this? Tell me more about the Creed.

Atiyah: 26:28

Yeah. So, you know, like call and response, they get in a circle and it is, if I don't know about her, I should be embarrassed, but it starts like, I am brilliant. I love myself. I am my sister's keeper. I am a beautiful black girl and I love math. It's like, I love to learn. I love to grow. So they call in response, um, to that. And it kind of just centers who they are, right. And like you belong in this space. We honor you. You're brilliant. And we're going to do some math and you're going to have fun.

Kenny: 26:56

That's a gem. Yeah, I had to take a moment. Yeah, I

Atiyah: 27:03

appreciate it.

Kenny: 27:03

take a moment. Atiyah knows I have a little, our viewers, like I have a little one, a, uh, a, uh, it's weird saying she, she's a black female, right, and so, a black queen, right, I could see like her saying that just now as you were explaining it, and I can imagine what it does. for her, uh, saying those types of things. Uh, she lets me know that stuff a lot of times anyways, but good to hear it in a setting like that. And I think there's power in saying it as a community for sure.

Atiyah: 27:39

Yeah. Every time I hear it, it's, it's one of those things that still get charged up because The girls are like, they all have personality. So then some of the ways they say it. And then we worked with a high, um, group of Latina girls in Camden, New Jersey. So they said it in Spanish and they would say Brown girl. And it's like, yes, we're all the same people. Let's go. It was just like, Oh my goodness. So it was just beautiful.

Kenny: 28:03

I appreciate you, uh, you know, coming on the platform, sharing your story. Um, it definitely resonated from day one, me being a math major, right? Um, me having a daughter and just, all right, let me see what opportunities are out there for her to connect with some really incredible people. Uh, mine's is still young, too young, I think to join, but you've already given me some homework in terms of what I can

Atiyah: 28:29

Yes.

Kenny: 28:30

up my success. I got to make sure I do my homework, tell me, tell myself and our listeners, like what's the best way. For them to, uh, tap in, uh, with black girls love map. What are you looking for right now in terms of support? All right, let's make sure we let folks know about that.

Atiyah: 28:49

Sure. We are launching our capital campaign September 30th. Our goal is we are officially expanded to Brooklyn. So we started in Philadelphia. We've served four cities now, so we want to have a stamp in our capital campaign to increase our personnel in those cities as we train teachers to be able to do our work and push the mission forward. So If you go to our website, blackgirlsofmath. org, you will have options to donate. If you work at any corporation that does company matching, please type us in. We are on there. Everything is legit. Um, so we ask that and we have social media, of course, if you want to keep up with the daily things or weekly things we're doing. All Black Girls Love Math, with the exception of X, which is BGLM 416.

Kenny: 29:33

Got it. But you got what? 99 percent of the platforms on lock. So all right, just Google it and you're going to find it. Um, I definitely appreciate you again. I just want to say that for coming on the platform. I always give my guests the last word. So what do you want our listeners to leave this conversation with?

Atiyah: 29:56

Everyone is a math person and black girls thrive and belong in math spaces just as everyone else, if not more.

Kenny: 30:04

Mic drop moment. Thanks for tuning in to another great episode of the beyond normal podcast.