Why the Best Salespeople Talk Less and Close More | Ronnell Richards

In this episode of the Beyond Normal Podcast, Kenny Groom sits down with Ronnell Richards, founder of Business & Bourbon, to discuss the power of authentic selling and relationship-driven business growth.

Ronnell shares how his experience in sales leadership shaped his belief that the best salespeople succeed not by talking more, but by listening better. Through his community-focused networking platform, he’s helping professionals build deeper relationships that lead to real opportunities.

The conversation explores how entrepreneurs and sales professionals can strengthen their networks, build trust with clients, and create meaningful conversations that lead to long-term success.

If you’re looking to grow your business through stronger relationships instead of traditional sales tactics, this episode delivers practical insights you can apply immediately.

Transcript

Kenny 0:50

Welcome, welcome to another great episode of The Beyond Normal Podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Groom. I can't believe we're in, in season eight. Amazing time to be a podcaster. We've got some incredible, conversations that we're gonna have today and, you know, I talk to a lot of founders and the idea of wearing the sales hat, is not. The most natural for some folks. And so why not have someone who lives and breathes sales on? And so today we're gonna talk about, what it, how you connect real growth, sales, and just having a mindset, that equips, someone to, get hit some revenue targets and, and bring some, some value to. Their business and really their customers. today our guest is Ronell Richards. I wanna make sure I get this bio right'cause he is doing some incredible things. he's a seasoned entrepreneur, sales leader, extraordinaire, author, content creator, known for, his philosophy. I love the, the name of this, shut the Hell Up and Sell. he's built multiple businesses, some of which are, called, business in Bourbon, say Less Academy and Legacy. TSD, and that's just to name a few. You're definitely involved in a lot of things right now, but I just want to give a quick, quick, quick intro, through your speaking engagements. you're a fellow podcaster as well. You've done some podcast work. you've done some real incredible on camera storytelling when it comes to sales, and so I'm happy to have you on today right now. So without further ado, let's bring Ronelle to the stage. How's it going?

Ronnell 2:34

Hey Hey Kenny, appreciate that. But you forgot man. I also won a gold medal in cross country skiing.

Kenny 2:41

Is this, are you? I was about to say right now I've been following you for some time and I do not remember you doing anything of the such. Okay. No

Ronnell 2:51

country skiing.

Kenny 2:51

skiing. I was like, I

Ronnell 2:52

really, appreciate that that introduction, man. Yeah, I try to stay busy man. need a Oh, for sure. You a James Brown record back here.'cause I try to be the hardest working man. know, You know, not just hardworking, but. you You know, really intentional about the work, but

Kenny 3:05

mm, make no

Ronnell 3:06

bones about it. Kenny, no one's gonna out

Kenny 3:08

grind me. I love that. I love that. And that shows up on all your content, which we'll dig into in a little bit. I think where I wanna start things off, before digging into sales strategy and going down that path, I think we should definitely see like what's behind your belief system, right? you talk a lot about identity. All your content in terms of showing up as yourself and, and how you can, leverage that to, sell or just like have con conversations with your audience. And so I'm curious, like what part of your background gave you the confidence to sell really anything to anybody? Because when I see Ronelle on social media, I'm like. Depending on the, the moment, depending on the company that you're, you're approaching people about, like you feel comfortable selling that in that moment to anybody, so, so what about your background is giving you that confidence?

Ronnell 4:09

Man. God, you said a couple of things there, Kenny, but I'll say, start start with makes makes me feel comfortable. It's something that maybe can't be replicated and that is just my background, how I grew up. You know, you You see of, for those for those of you that are watching this, um, I got my Ohio State Buckeye Buckeye hat on as I'm a Buckeye, Buckeye born. However, I was raised in Utah when I was a kid, you a kid. You know, my parents moved me to, Utah and grew up in that environment, and I, I, was it part of that of that upbringing that really I was kind of I was kind of forged in fire a little bit. When you You are such an outlier and such a, extreme minority, especially especially in the eighties and nineties. uh, you go one of two directions. either either you're going to, fortunately I had I had great parents that helped to instill, confidence in me and, Made me me keep my head up no matter where I was at. Even though people everywhere I went were, were staring at me. It's like I was an oddity. So part part of that for me. Kenny, Kenny is just I I am, who I, how I was raised, intention behind my, my parents and intention that my parents had in had in guiding me and directing me to be the, the person and the man that I am today. But that But that ties back into something that you said earlier, which was, the, the. the Oh, the showing up as up as yourself. I think that's something that gets a little misconstrued. Especially in sales and in business, in the, in the social media. Like, look at me world. Like I don't necessarily like look at it the exact same way. And here's what I mean by that. I I am almost 30 years into my career, like I'm. lack of lack of a better way to put it in my industry. I'm goaded, you know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. I can, I can show up how I want to show up because I put in the work intentionally beforehand. People know that I'm a bankable product. right? What I want people to think about in sales and business is intention and and not necessarily just showing up as yourself again, gets over you. Showing up as yourself And in some rooms may not be the best look for you. I'm not saying that you be inauthentic. I'm saying that you understand and have intention with how you show up and where you show up. Okay? So So for me, what that meant and building my career in, in technology sales for up up until probably eight years ago, Kenny, Kenny, you'd never not see me anywhere. Not suited and booted. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. And the And the reason for that is I had this intention, that was it was instilled in me by my parents that I have to show up a certain way, not just instilled me in my parents, but instilled me by the environment that I grew up in. Growing up in up in that environment where you're an extreme minority, the the first thing that people are gonna think about you and did think about me was negative things. That's That's not who I am. I But I had to control that narrative because if if I don't show up a certain way intentionally, There's a a negative assption that's that's gonna be made and and that's going to impact my ability to be successful. So So one of the things, as I'm traveling around the country and talking to people, I just want them to reframe. authenticity. I want I want them to reframe intentionality and how they show up in the world and think about outcomes. What, what, what do Mm-hmm. What, what, what do you ultimately want? Like Like we, we get so caught up on some of these ego things that lose sight of what it is that we're ultimately trying to, trying trying to do. Listen, if Listen, if I didn't show up suited and booted for, for, for those years, you know what? I wouldn't have been able to do, Kenny. wouldn't have wouldn't have been able to employ the hundreds of people that I employed. I wouldn't I wouldn't have been able to now look and see these people that work for me who's. whose kids are going through college and I helped them to set up their 5, 2, 9 plans. I wouldn't have been in that position. You You understand what I'm saying? So I just want people to to think a little bit differently about what success looks like and how to frame that, how to frame their, the, I feel I feel like in some respects, Kenny, I have to push back on some of these narratives that get. sensationalized

Kenny 8:28

Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 8:29

Right. In sales and in business. And I realized that I'm part of it. I'm I'm part of it.'cause I'm sitting here talking to you. I I look like I'm about to step outta here and go model for athleisure or something. Right? Like Lululemon. And And so I've created, and people look at me and they aspire to do some of the things that I've done. And so they looked at me and said, oh, look how Ronelle sold it. But they don't know that, hey, Ronnell Ronelle put in those dues. And he was intentional. about About his actions, I and I still am very much so. It's just that my work has allowed me the liberty to be able to do some things that other people aren't able to do. So I would say new, I would say entrepreneurs, sellers, building your your career. professionals in general. Anyone, everyone, man. about about you you show up. Be Be intentional about it, You you know? Mm-hmm. Just showing up and say, Hey, this is me. Accept, accept me or don't accept me. Oh, that could be a lesson for, for failure, I'm telling you. right Yeah. Right now. And at the end of the day, one of the things, Kenny, you've heard me talk about this before is you do you want to be right or do you or do you want to get it right? Mm. I like I like getting it right.

Kenny 9:38

Mm-hmm. That's what I'm talking about. That's why we got Ronnell on right now. I appreciate you. something you said at the end there where, you know, in certain rooms you can't necessarily. You can't, you can't come in as you would prefer, like you're 100% self and we know why you, that example of growing up in Utah makes perfect sense, right? There's, there's definitely some thoughts and, traits that people throw on a, young black boy growing in Utah, I can only imagine, right? Doubt what some of those things are. And so that, that was definitely. Like you said, like you were, you wanted to make sure you minimized some of those expectations, those negative ones that people may have had and now you put in the work. I appreciate you saying you put in the work,'cause that is key as well. And I would say I probably started following you, I don't think it was eight years ago, it was seven years ago, and I did see the shift. You brought it up, suited and booted, and then, all right, now you can at least come out sometimes and wear your Ohio State cap. Like, you know how to, you know, how to balance it out a little bit. and it,

Ronnell 10:58

Kenny, Kenny, here's the thing. You can't, one, another thing to know about me is I'm a, I'm a disruptor. Mm-hmm. In my blood. It, it It can't, it, it came, it's, it started way before me. of One of the things that y'all, you and your audience should know is that while we were there in Utah, my parents. were Were leaders in the community, in the black community, and we, we, they opened the very first beauty beauty supply in northern Utah Okay. Okay. For black people. Okay. Okay? when when I walked in my house, I saw posters of kings and queens of, of, of Africa, right? Like I I grew up in a disruptive household, meaning that, and when if if you meet my my father, you know exactly what I'm talking about. My father, I am my father's son. However, what what I've, what I learned. in In my, as we we take these things to the next level, like my father, he's no nonsense, right? Mm-hmm. It, it, He, he, he's, he's, he's he's not having it. what what I learned in my journey, while I still have that in me, is that I can't change a room from the outside. Mm-hmm. I can't change. I can sit out here, out here and talk about things the way and the way things should be and the way I want'em to be and everything, but if I can't get a seat at the table, I can't affect change. And And again, this goes back to what I initially said, outcomes. think think about that folks in your business, in your life, is the what is the ultimate outcome that you want? And if your if your outcomes focused, changes everything. It It changes how you view some of these things. It changes how you view ego and and absence of ego, which is a, a topic that. I'm I'm very passionate about. If you guys get the chance, check out. Deepak Chopper's. Done. Great work on that. In terms of how to, to when to use ego, when to not use ego. Right. And when Mm. And when your outcomes focus, that's all you care. I, care care about what I'm trying to get. At the end of the day. This little thing right here, it's, this is temporary. It's like they say, you know, win or lose the battle to whatever the, to win the war. I'm trying to win wars.'cause,'cause,'cause Mm.'cause'cause that's how you. that's how That's how you really make change. That's how you get to the levels of success that you want.

Kenny 13:06

Yeah. I appreciate that. I, I think this is a good point to dive in a little bit into the book. The, the, really, the show, the movement around Shut the Hell Up and Sell. I love the name. it removes a lot of what we see now where somebody puts a, a, a fancy, Fancy strategy in place. There's like these, you know, the acronyms and it stands for something. I really think that name always stands out when I see your posts online around that. So shout out to you and your team that put that together, but what does like the shut the hell up and sell mean in today's context? Really, it's thinking along the lines where like the sales process, there's, everybody's in people's dms and stuff is getting automated, like. Where does that fit in this world that we're moving to? Where the, the sales process itself is, is morphing and turning into something we, we necessarily haven't seen in the past.

Ronnell 14:06

Yeah. So while some parts of the process have changed,'cause that's what technology does, right? right? Like this is just the latest technology. It ain't nothing new. you You know, 30 30 years ago they they were doing this, going through this thing with fax machines, 20. 25 years years ago, it was the internet. 60 years ago it was telephone. There's There's always some new technology, but fundamentally how we how we sell How and how we connect and build relationships not not changed and never will. It's It's just the, the, the tools that we use to get there change. So, like you mentioned, AI and automation, this is real. Listen, don't don't love it, I'm I'm embracing it because. This This is part of business now. So as you look at that transactional part of part of the sales process, the front end, right right now it's clunky, meaning AI and automation and it's uncomfortable. But I can tell you that Kenny, I'm, I'm I'm committed to figuring it out. So, you you know, I've been working on it. I, a I'm a small team that's working on it to figure out those tools now, back back to the shut the hell up and sell and what that's about. So these these tools, the way that we communicate, these are are all tools to funnel us to a real, to a discovery, right? right? The once we get to the discovery, those tools are out the door. So So once we've, we've got to that discovery meeting, someone has honored us with their time, it is now incbent upon us to make them the star. So when So when you think about shut the hell up in sell, shut the hell's up in sales about philosophy and it's about tactical execution. The The philosophy of understanding that our our voice is not as important as the customer's voice, which people, they get that d, but they but they don't know how to do it. Mm-hmm. They don't really commit to the philosophy, one, and nber two, they don't have the tools to keep them in check. You wanna know the biggest issue that I see with salespeople and discovery is the the advice monster. Okay. Okay. the And the advice monster is every, when they get that discovery meeting, every time a customer gives them a little buying signal, want they want to jp in, right? They, They, they say something like, they'll, they'll talk about a little problem they have and then they'll say, oh, you don't, well, my problem, my, product addresses that that problem. And it's, which which is one of the most destructive things you can do, and it's against the philosophy of shut the hell and sell. Instead, what we what we teach is. shut up. Here's

Kenny 16:37

Here's

Ronnell 16:37

how to shut up, keep asking more questions, drill, get down, clarifying questions, all those things, because the more information that you get from your customer, the the better for you because one, they're gonna lay out the recipe. They're gonna They're gonna tell you how to close them if if you ask enough questions. See, oftentimes when we get suckered into that advice monster, we're we're up here. We're just addressing a superficial issue, right? The basic issue, which is the reason why they're talking to us. but what What we're, what we're trying to uncover in, in the shut the hell up. And relationship centric sales philosophy is the deeper stuff I I want to know. Personal impact. When you finally get that meeting with someone, Kenny, there's there's already business alignment. There's

Kenny 17:23

There's business

Ronnell 17:24

alignment, So so I know that I want, I want want to, I want personal alignment. I I wanna know what's gonna get that person fired. I wanna I wanna know what's gonna get them promoted.'cause when'cause when I know those things, I can I can weave my solution in a, as, as an impact to things things they care the most about. You You understand understand what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Now, that's emotional motivation. That's That's beyond rational, right? The The rational stuff is where most salespeople play. The superficial, rational, transactional Bring my product's cheaper than yours. I got these more value props than them. At the end At the end of the day, we're dealing, we're doing business with individuals. I I gotta know about you. I gotta know about your, your daily life. I gotta know about your da, your business intimately. So So again, I'm as I'm presenting my solution, I'm I'm impacting what you care the most about, and that's what's gonna separate any seller or any business person from all all of their other competition.

Kenny 18:22

Mm. Oh, you have some nuggets in there right now. I was sitting over here taking notes, excuse me, if, if I'm off in the clouds thinking about ideas, but that, that is super powerful. The, there's just like the, the idea of just asking questions and like listening on a call if you're not a podcaster, it, I definitely think even for podcasting, right, like that, that's a skill. It takes some time. To get to. Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 18:51

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 18:52

but there's always those moments, even for podcasting when you ask a question and then somebody, you see somebody's face light up, and then they go into their bag and then they give you, like you said, the recipe to how you can offer value for them. I love that.

Ronnell 19:08

you, you You, you, you want some, I'm gonna throw out some podcasting advice for folks that are out there, and you know this, but you said something. It's the same sort of skillset, And this this may sound polarizing, but it is what it is. I don't care. Shannon Sharp makes a ton a ton of money podcasting and, he he went viral for for his Cat Williams interview,

Kenny 19:28

whatever. Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 19:29

A year and a year and a half, two years ago. Shannon Sharp is A a horrible podcaster. Yeah. He's a horrible interviewer. So So what he has to do he is he has to get people that have tons of personality and and can kind of take over and they just. capitalize off of off of that, right? Mm-hmm. He can sit back there and do his a Shannon thing and they talk and they take control. Now, conversely, you look at some of the, the the biggest, like the, the problem with Shannon problem is that he's gonna be a flash in the pan. He's chasing look at look at it. Now he's chasing like polarizing guest. Mm-hmm. So that you can recreate that. Meanwhile, you look at someone like Steven, I forget his name. Steven, the diary of the CEO guy. Oh yeah. Okay. Rich guy. Okay. Okay. He's He's masterful.

Kenny 20:17

Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 20:18

and he he does such a great job at asking questions, asking clarifying questions, and and getting deeper in those. That's the That's the reason why he's so successful and his brand has such longevity. He can He can bring on Kamala Harris. He can bring on, know, know, someone on the other of the of the spectr. can bring Mm-hmm. He can bring on anyone and create great content. So it's So it's that same sort of thing business and in and in sales and podcasting, like knowing how to how to ask great questions and having the discipline,

Kenny 20:54

mm-hmm.

Ronnell 20:55

to To pull more out is going is going to be your key to being successful in sales, business and podcasting. and podcasting.

Kenny 21:03

Yeah, that's dope man. It is interesting that you bring up those two different types of creators, right? In this space, there is a market for both. But to your point, you tell the difference in like, I don't wanna say production value, but one guy who you mentioned, the diary of a CEO. Like it feels like a, it feels like you're watching a full production versus I think Shannon's to your point, it's like somebody we really want to see just get on the couch and like talk their, talk their ish.

Ronnell 21:38

Kenny, Kenny, what you're watching is, I'm gonna throw a hip hop reference. You're watching, you're seeing the difference between Young mc and

Kenny 21:45

and Wu-Tang. Yeah.

Ronnell 21:47

Okay.

Kenny 21:47

Okay.

Ronnell 21:48

Popularity versus staying power.

Kenny 21:52

Mm. Okay.

Ronnell 21:52

And this is And this is how you build your a successful business as well. It's through deep relationships. See See that guy, whether it's the sales guy or it's the Shannon Sharp figure, they're gonna be chasing their tail. every Every month. Yeah, every quarter. Every year. okay? Where Where this person over here, they're they're building deeper relationships. and

Kenny 22:15

Mm. And how

Ronnell 22:15

this translates into sales relationships. You'll be able to monetize in business. be You'll be able to monetize for years. Yeah. Yeah. So when I talk about these philosophies, I'm not talking about how to make your quota this month. I'm not I'm not talking about how to make your quota this year. I'm telling you how to build a business. I'm telling you how entrepr smart entrepreneurs do it. and And this is how you not only build a, you'll build a business that's going to feed you today, but it's gonna feed you every year and make your life so much easier. people hate the hate the most about sales is the front end of it. The prospecting. Mm-hmm.

Kenny 22:47

They hate

Ronnell 22:47

the rejection and all that. But here's the thing. When you do the things that we're talking about right now, What it what it does is it builds a successful business that builds builds advocates for you. So So your customers end up becoming. non-payroll salespeople for you. Yeah. and And you end up getting referrals. predictable. This is This is how you do it, you and you can't get get, build that sort of business if all of you're selling is up here on a very superficial level. You gotta Gotta get deeper.

Kenny 23:16

Got it, got it, got it. All right. I want to, I want to pivot a little bit to how you position your personal brand to drive the many businesses that you're a part of, right. I see. Ronelle first, right? And then there's this conversation, like you said, you're, you're, you're out to have a conversation and you, you want to spur that dialogue with your audience, right there. There's a system there that I feel like you put into place. Like how do you structure your content and presence so that it'll aligns with. Revenue driving outcomes, like you mentioned, like where you're not necessarily talking about, Hey, here's how I hit my goal this month, but here's how I have a lasting relationship with my customer or my audience for, just long-term

Ronnell 24:07

Yeah.

Kenny 24:08

Revenue, long-term benefit. Like talk a little bit about how you structure your content because your content stands out to me, in that way because you're having. Some incredible conversations and it, it doesn't feel like you're being transactional.

Ronnell 24:23

Yeah, it's It's been a journey. so I'll So I'll start by what I missed. What I just didn't, didn't, I don't know why I'll say that. I did a bad job. I didn't. It's just been, been it's been a journey and a organic. Progression. And I and I think anything in life, that's where you get the best outcomes. When you have good intentions and just just organically go where things take you and then. add Add some attention to that. So for me, when I started down the journey, I didn't have any, it actually came through pain, which is a where a lot of good things come from is from pain. So when I when I started my journey, in terms of building personal brand and social media had started after the biggest failure of my professional career. I had I had closed a a, a company that, I started from nothing and grew it to pretty, pretty pretty large. and it and it was a devastating loss for me. And the The first time in my professional career that I suffered such a significant loss. Like I've had bad months, I've had bad quarters, but ultimately I always win. I I didn't win. Ultimately, had to, I had to, after 13 years in business, had to shut the doors it and it was painful. And around around that time, you know, I'm watching LinkedIn and I'm and I'm seeing people with with cameras and say say a lot of stuff. And game game recognizes game. I'm I'm watching and I'm hearing this advice and things that people people are saying. I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. is This is some bullshit. You You playing social media, you ain't even really lived this life. And And so that's what inspired me to start sharing. I'm like, you know what? No, I've been through this. I'm gonna start sharing some things. And as I started to share things, I didn't have any mo, didn't I didn't really have a. Plan to to build a brand. I was just sharing what what was on my, it was cathartic in a way, Kenny, and what what happened with that is you build this relationships and the followings and people people that can connect and relate and game game recognize as game. So So what you, what you see is at the top. What I saw through that is at the, kind of like the top levels in the executive suite, I found that I was having lots lots of fans there that. They would would never even comment or like or anything, or I mean, but they'd reach out to me because game recognizes game. okay, this, Okay. This, this cat's legit. So what I started was just sharing my authentic truths I've I've learned and over time I found, man, I just, this is great, I I really, there's no direction in it. It's just me sharing. which Which is cool, but in our world, business world world and business, social media, that's doesn't really make money. Mm-hmm. Like we're not in the think think about it. These These other platforms are attention platforms, Instagram, TikTok, you you get attention, you get a check. LinkedIn ain't ain't that way. It's thought leadership and you have to convert in other ways. And And so I just started to be to be more intentional. I'm giving you the short and condensed version, but started started to be more intentional about. leveraging it it with call to actions, making sure that I have call to actions, nber one. and using it as a tool to get data.'cause data is power, right? So driving people to, to platforms and things where we could collect their data so we can market and sell directly. To To folks and not relying on platforms to distribute our message. Hmm. And, and then I just look I for, I just, certain things just happen organically. Like you mentioned, business and bourbon, business and bourbon turned into a company and didn't start that way. It was just a platform. and ultimately, we evolved into into a company that, that that we've done really well on.

Kenny 28:10

Yeah.

Ronnell 28:11

over Over the

Kenny 28:11

years. So, and I just wanna shout out business and bourbon too. Like it makes so much sense like. Getting together, networking, having a drink, like there's more to it obviously than that. Yeah. But I just think you are tapping into like this, like the breaking bread. It, it, I just feel like that's like a premi experience right now and so I appreciate you for putting the effort into a space like that. And really, again, the robots are coming, we get it. Everything's digital now, but. There's still such a premi and probably even more of a premi on having those experiences with people. And yeah, just having conversation like there, I feel like the content you put out around your, your events, there isn't a lot of fluff. It's really you having conversations with your audience and your audience is pretty massive for you. So for you to take that. A lot of people, they say once they get to, you know, the, the, the right amount of audience, now they just put stuff on cruise control. I don't see that with you're, with what you're doing.

Ronnell 29:16

because part part of it, Kenny, is just, I I like it.

Kenny 29:20

Mm.

Ronnell 29:20

Even to Been to this day. You know, I've had a marketing teams and all that for years, but like, when you you look at Ronelle's personal content, it's Ronelle. Mm-hmm. Like I do it, I, I, I post it, I I write the comment, write, I I write, I respond to the comments, I do the copy, like. it's my To my authentic voice. So I would tell people, don't don't look for the easy button. use use your authentic voice. be be you in that respect, and just know that, it's gonna connect relate to, to, to, some to some folks out there and know that this, your success, KPI, is one. It's It's not thousands of of views. It's not mm-hmm. A hundred likes. It's that one person. on the On the other end, could that could potentially be someone that you can do business with.

Kenny 30:04

You only need one. Got it. Alright, so, we're, we're, we're getting close to the end of our conversation. You have started many, businesses, successful businesses. Like you said, you've had some failures that I think that's, that, that comes with the game, right? that we're in. What's your point of view on founder led sales versus hiring someone? Who may have that skillset. I'm curious, as you've built out these different businesses, when do you decide to bring in somebody else to maybe do the selling and you can do the, all the other founder CEO stuff, the stuff that comes along with it. So like what, what's your point of view on the founder led sales versus bringing somebody in a rep of some sort, a sales director to lead that for you?

Ronnell 30:54

It's so funny because funny because. forget and they forget and they don't recognize that salesperson that will that will they will ever have is is them. No No one has the same amount of passion. No one has the same amount of understanding as the founder. you you watch, meta roll out a new whatever, who's who's selling it? It's It's Zuckerberg. not, Mm-hmm. some not some guy underneath them. When you them. When you watch Apple roll out their new. product, who's out there on stage selling it? Tim Cook. it.

Kenny 31:31

Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 31:31

Tim Cook. So I I see this in a in a lot of the, with my consulting firm. What I see a lot with entrepreneurs is this arc, they are kind of doing everything right. They make some money and and now they they try to remove themselves from, you you know, different tasks, which is smart. You have to,'cause you can't do everything in scale. but But we're. I I see them. The mistake they had, they have, and where the issue is, is they try to bring in salespeople to to replicate themselves. So they're looking to, I'm sorry, wrong word, duplicate. trying to to duplicate themselves. So they'll be like, okay, I I need to make another me. And then they go hire somebody and they put them in an environment and say, okay, you're super talented. You've, you've you've done really well over here. Okay, make make it happen. can You can do anything you want here, give you a budget. All these things. They They expect sellers, they they expect to bring people into an environment and do what did. Mm-hmm. And I tell them, if they could do what you did well then they they wouldn't need a job. They'd Yeah. They'd be you. Yeah. And And so what I coach founders on on is one, what, nber one, you can't duplicate yourself. What What you can do is you can take processes. So here's here's some advice for founders. Start creating SOPs. Start Start understanding all the process around how you sell and and those specific aspects of the pro of the of the process, boom. You can You can take those out and you can hire people and, and enable them to successful through through having them do those aspects of the process.

Kenny 33:13

Mm-hmm.

Ronnell 33:14

Nber two, stop trying to take yourself out of the sales process. That's where you're most valuable. It It ain't sitting in your office. It ain't looking at spreadsheets. It ain't, you bring the most value to your organization by by sitting in front of a customer. but But what, what? What you can't be doing if you're gonna scale is all that other stuff. prospecting and all. and all. No, you gotta remove yourself outta that.'cause your time is more valuable now. So the the most successful founders that I know and I've worked with. They never forget that that's where they're, that's where they are the most valuable. Okay. And when you bring in salespeople and you hire salespeople, you have a plan that enables them to be successful with clear SOPs, clear KPIs direction and and instruction. the the nber one area where they go wrong, is they don't, they don't do that.

Kenny 34:10

Mm-hmm. They

Ronnell 34:11

didn't do it. just They just hire people expect them to be them to be successful, so you're failing them.

Kenny 34:17

Mm, I like, I like that, what you do in there around like the SOPs. I don't really hear too many sales minded people bring up those SOPs and those processes, but I definitely think, that's key to, again, like you said, having somebody come in and at least have an understanding of how you do things, but they're not gonna do it the way that you do it. I, I don't almost, you can

Ronnell 34:45

scale process. You can't scale people.

Kenny 34:48

Mm.

Ronnell 34:48

Feel me? Yeah. I can process, I can I can scale. I I can't say I can't unless you get a cloning machine. I can't clone Kenny. Yeah.

Kenny 34:59

Yeah. And I would, I what they, I want to throw in there, I feel like the great sellers that I know, you're in that bucket. Like, they're gonna break, not break the rules, but they're gonna do stuff their way. And I think that that's something that stands out to me. All the people that I, that I follow, or I feel like they have a knack for, a knack for selling. They do it their own way. And so to your point, like there is no clone, there is no AI that you can just say, watch him and, and rinse and repeat. That brings value to the individual. I understand you gotta pay people their, their certainly pay people their, their worth. but I'm, I'm, I'm glad you threw that in there. So this conversation, this was powerful for me. I was over here taking some notes, some mental notes I wrote down, wrote down a couple things. I think for folks trying to build sustainable growth. anytime they can follow Ronelle, I recommend. So what's the best way for folks to tap in with your brand? I know you're involved with several companies, but is there like a go-to for somebody to follow and maybe connect with you?

Ronnell 36:10

If If you can't find me, Helen Keller. I'm, I try to be everywhere, bro. Yeah,

Kenny 36:16

you really are everywhere. I think you even have Ronell Richards, LLC, right?

Ronnell 36:22

yeah, that's my

Kenny 36:23

So to your point, that's my consulting firm.

Ronnell 36:24

Yeah. Got it. So go to relle richards.com. That's, that is a hub for kind of everything. So rl richards.com, make sure you connect on, on LinkedIn. You you can, know, you know, r richards.com will connect you to business in Bourbon. Mm-hmm. say Say Less Academy, which is my private label school. you you can go to LinkedIn Learning where we have. I think 17 courses licensed to them on their platform. So try to try to be everywhere, man.

Kenny 36:56

Appreciate that. that call out for the training, the LinkedIn learning, I've taken that training myself. I appreciated it. I learned a lot going through that, and so I'm glad you threw that in there. Last question. What do you hope people do differently after hearing this conversation?

Ronnell 37:11

Think,

Kenny 37:12

you.

Ronnell 37:13

think my, my job and my role is to agitate people's brain. I want you to I want you to think, I want you to think to get off of, you you know, autopilot and question what what you know, have a have a growth mindset, you know, question what you think that you know, and focus on getting getting it right and not being right.

Kenny 37:36

Mm-hmm. Mic drop moment. Thank you, Ronelle, for being on the platform, those tuning in. Thank you for tuning into another incredible episode of The Beyond Normal podcast. These

Ronnell 37:50

Kenny. Kenny.