Betting on Yourself After Layoffs | Dana Duckworth on Reinvention & Career Growth

In this episode of the Beyond Normal Podcast, Kenny Groom sits down with Dana Duckworth to talk about what it really means to bet on yourself after layoffs.

Dana shares her journey of navigating career uncertainty, rebuilding confidence, and stepping into new opportunities with intention. From handling unexpected transitions to trusting your own value, this conversation is filled with honest lessons for founders, professionals, and anyone facing change.

If you’ve ever had to pivot, rebuild, or remind yourself of your worth, this episode will hit home.

Listen in as we discuss resilience, career growth, leadership, and why your next chapter may require you to choose yourself first.

Transcript

Kenny 0:50

Hey, what's going on everybody? This is Kenny Groom, host of The Beyond Normal Podcast. I'm excited to be in this, season. We're in season eight of the podcast. I can't believe we've made it this far. The new year is upon us. 2026. Amazing things are happening, for all the business owners and creators that are out there today. We have a very special guest who is a business owner and a creator herself. She goes by, she goes by the name, Dana Duckworth. is. The founder, speaker, consultant for Speak Up Dana. She's also a fellow podcaster for he hilariously unemployed, the podcast. And so I want to have her on today and talk about her journey, really being a, a disciplines, but being a founder of something and then also being a creator. So without further ado, let's bring Dana to the stage. How's it going today?

Dana 1:49

Mac. Hi. I'm so happy to be here.

Kenny 1:53

I love the energy. the first time we met in person was, was it black men in tech?

Dana 2:00

Yes, we, we met in person at Black Men in Tech.

Kenny 2:03

And so, the energy, was definitely felt having a fellow creator in this space. I was able to attend your session, which actually focused on, being a founder and what it takes to take gambles on yourself. And so I definitely want to dig into that later on. but happy to have you on today. How is, are you with the new year and, and new opportunities put in front of you?

Dana 2:31

I'm excited every year that I, continue to have my business. So this is year three for me. I'll be going into year four in 2026. I'm always like, at some point in the year, I'm like, oh, I gotta get a nine to five. I don't, this ain't gonna work out. And thankfully, each year I have made it to the end of the year without getting that nine to five. So hopefully 2026 is similar. but yeah, the, the, the year has been good and I am feeling really great about what's to come.

Kenny 3:01

Yeah. the cliff, right. and having your own business. Not having that job right at the same time, and I know there's always that balance between, well, do I go back and try to do this part-time or do I just fully focus on what your passion is, or you know, the thing that's keeping you up at night

Dana 3:25

Yeah.

Kenny 3:25

of the time. It sounds amazing, but everybody can't do that.

Dana 3:29

It is scary. It's scary. for me, I'm a single woman. I'm a mother. I have, twin boys. They're 17. One is going to college. So for me, it is like, girl, what you gonna do? and granted, like their father takes care of them as well, but still as a parent, you just wanna be able to contribute in a way and make sure that your children have not just what they need, but access. and then also me, I, I like a lifestyle luxury. I'm a big. I'm a very soft life type girl. I like, I like my spa days, I like my nails, my lashes, my hair. I love things. So having to, work hard to make sure that I'm able to sustain my lifestyle for them, of course, and also me.

Kenny 4:12

Yeah, that's honest. That's real talk. So talk, you talked, you touched on three years ago. you made the decision to start, speak up

Dana 4:23

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 4:25

were you, what were you doing before taking that gamble? Give us, set the stage for us.

Dana 4:31

Yeah. So, this is kind of the, the reason my podcast started. So I was working inside of a startup. they do digital advertising for multi-family apartment communities. and I was laid off from them. So I was doing their culture engagement strategy and diversity, equity and inclusion work, and I was laid off. So from there, like I had already been speaking inside of the organization into some of our partners different events and they, they were very supportive of that. And my friends were literally like, everything you do for them you could do on your own for yourself, for not just their business but for anybody's business. And of course, you know, your friends have that belief in you. At the time I was like, nah, but the transition from there, so I was told I was being laid off. March 31st, 2023 and then I was actually laid off 'cause they asked me to stay on to help with the culture and morale, the organization, which is wild. But I stayed on until the end of June. And that was just a very weird space for me. I was like, every day I'm like, I don't feel like I need to wake up and go to this meeting or send this or send that. what do y'all want me to do? You wanted me to come back to work the next day after you just told me. So it was a very weird space for me. And in that I just knew that other people had to be dealing with. Things like this. And I wanted to figure out how can I help people going through this crazy transition? Because your job is such a huge part of your identity for most of us. And when I lost that piece, I was just, I was so lost completely. So I wanted to figure out how I could kind of turn that life lesson into lemonade. So that is what birthed hilariously unemployed, and I started doing my podcast and then. Of course, speaking had been a passion of mine, so I started doing that. I started executive coaching, doing cultural engagement, doing fractional consulting. So I just started doing anything to pay the bills and I really good at it.

Kenny 6:43

I love that, that I heard that buzzword in there, that acronym, DEI,

Dana 6:49

Uhhuh.

Kenny 6:49

that happening to you, what you said three years ago, four years ago.

Dana 6:54

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 6:54

Like we see where that space is now. Like, what is, like when you hear the word or you hear the acronym, DEI, like, what does it mean for you in the current space we're in? Or there,

Dana 7:05

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 7:06

like there's like a, the word is loaded with like, there's some politicalness, if that's a

Dana 7:13

Yeah.

Kenny 7:13

there. There's some, some heaviness that comes when, when people say that DEI

Dana 7:17

Yeah. So, I think it definitely is a buzz word. they almost try to make it a curse word or something that is super offensive. Offensive when it literally is just the facts. Diversity, equity, and inclusion. That is what it means. So having diversity in organization doesn't just mean black people get to do things right, but we want black people to be able to do things and all the other people. There to be able to do things. Equity, we want our employees to have equal access, but also we need to meet them where they are and make sure that they have equitable stake inside of our organization, because that's really what's gonna drive culture. That's what makes people so loyal to a brand, so loyal to a company that even if they quit or get fired, they're still gonna talk about how much they enjoy working there and tell people good things. And then inclusion. This is gonna be your driver for people to get up every day and feel like. I'm ready to get to work because I feel included. I feel like I have a good team around me. I feel like the organization is in support of me and I just feel good inside of my workspace. So I'm going to give my best. And when you take that away, you literally are telling people, we don't want you to perform at your best because we don't like those words. We feel like those words, you know, they give some other people the upper hand. So it really was a slight to businesses themselves. And then for people like me who are so passionate about it, it was like I wanted 'em to stand 10 toes down. Like, I don't care what's going on in the field. Like y'all said, y'all were doing it, stand 10 toes down. But as a businesswoman, understanding the ramifications for them if they didn't, which some companies did, some others didn't, and you see how that's working out for them currently. but I think that with every administration, there's gonna be a change and you can't continue to ride every single wave. Every single trend that happens because it's not a sustainable business model.

Kenny 9:11

Yeah, that's the, there. I appreciate you sharing that. There, there, there's certainly, like you said, some people have tried to make it a curse word. it's interesting that you said it that way. I think that the, the big takeaway for me. Especially with like the bigger brands that are here in the states,

Dana 9:29

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 9:30

it is amazing how they remove, they remove some of the emotional. The emotion from the decisions. A lot of it, they, they, they remove that. And I guess that's what makes them like Diabol Diabolically successful. Like we think

Dana 9:51

Yeah.

Kenny 9:51

brands in America, no matter

Dana 9:53

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 9:53

got elected, they were gonna figure out a way they had game plans in place. and so that's, that was really a big takeaway for me because I think if. In an alternate universe. Some another person, from the other party got elected, like in, in, in the form of Harris, right? I think we'd be having different conversations, but the companies, no matter what would, would still be successful, if that makes sense. So it's like they figured out a way to balance that, and I took that as a takeaway to myself in certain. Certain cases outside of the extremes, try to make sure I can make decisions that aren't necessarily charged. But it's

Dana 10:40

Yeah.

Kenny 10:41

right, like you said, because we

Dana 10:43

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 10:43

brands to allow us to show up the way we, we we want to. And when that doesn't happen, it's natural to have emotional reactions. But they

Dana 10:54

Yeah.

Kenny 10:54

necessarily, don't wear that hat, they don't wear that emotion. They, they, they move really strategically.

Dana 11:02

Yeah, I mean, we live in a capitalistic society where big business is gonna continue to be big business for much longer than you or I are going to be here. And they're very strategic about the way in which they do. Things. I think that with any administration, it definitely would've been some type of change that they had to become accustomed to. And like you said, as a business owner myself, like a lot of what I do is emotion because my brand is completely me. but I also have to be strategic. So when they started with the, oh no, DEI, no, DEI as a DEI, practitioner. How am I to market myself when people are literally scared to work with me? So what's at the core of DEI and the core for me and everything I have always done is employee wellness. How do people feel at work? What is the culture of the organization? So for me. You can call it whatever you want to, but I'm focused on employee engagement and the culture of organizations now through my lens of knowing how things work in this world. There's always gonna be some aspect of diversity, equity, and inclusion in everything I do, because how could you not if you're talking about employees, the drivers of your organization, but really how I position myself as, okay, I know you thought all I did was DEI, but. My skillset is elite and I can do many, many things, whatever you wanna call it, today or tomorrow, whenever the verbiage changes.

Kenny 12:26

Hmm. That's a bar right there. Dana. you, you said something in their culture, like the

Dana 12:32

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 12:33

the, the idea that culture magnifies results doesn't go away. Now that DEI is shunned I think

Dana 12:40

It.

Kenny 12:40

powerful. So it's. It's really cool to hear you say like you have a skillset that is adaptable to different markets, right? Whether you're doing it internally within a corporation or you're doing it on your own, that doesn't change the value of your

Dana 12:56

Yeah.

Kenny 12:56

in this market.

Dana 12:58

Yeah, it's, it's, at the end of the day, the people are gonna be the highest cost and tool in an organization, like they're the driver of your product. They're gonna determine if your product does well or your product does poorly. So at the end of the day, the basic understanding needs to be, I need employees that are engaged, and how do I do that? By creating a culture that is diverse, equitable, and inclusive. It literally is the same. It's the same formula, just reworked.

Kenny 13:24

Yeah, you just don't lead with that word, but that

Dana 13:27

Hmm.

Kenny 13:27

still gets thrown in there, to your point.

Dana 13:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kenny 13:32

so let's talk a little bit about, hilariously unemployed. I follow the, I, I binge watched it, right? I binge watched the episodes once we connected,

Dana 13:45

Oh, wow.

Kenny 13:47

every stream counts, for those listening in. Every stream counts. Make sure you stream every episode of our content, whether there's video on YouTube or audio. Spotify, apple, you get the drift, right? Every stream counts. I'm gonna say that a thousand times in my lifetime, but. I feel like there was, it felt like there were some proofs of concepts that you were able to pick from those

Dana 14:12

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 14:14

if you've leveraged any insights or what insights you have leveraged. Right. 'cause we've had conversations from the, the podcast to position your business the right way, if that makes sense.

Dana 14:27

Oh, it's been so many instances of me being like, aha. because you gotta think. I'm talking to so many different people. I'm talking to people that are. Currently in organizations, a part of the process of layoffs. I'm talking to people who, who, I've been through it maybe a year ago, and they've come out the other side. I'm talking to executives, I'm talking to authors. So of course it's like, I wanna write a book. I, I wanna have that product. Because the lessons of each episode, it's so pertinent, not just to people who are unemployed, but when you think about your whole career life cycle, some of the things people are sharing, it is like, oh. I didn't even think about that. I know for me, one instance was, somebody reached out to me and they were like, I had no idea I could ask my company to keep my laptop. I did. And they said yes. And I was like, yeah. Like if somebody hadn't told me that, I wouldn't have that knowledge. I had no idea that I could negotiate, my, my healthcare once I was let out. Nobody would've known because nobody's talking about it because there's so much stigma around the fact that you don't have a job. So there have been so many instances where I've realized like I'm not just helping myself through what I thought was my process. I literally am helping people and having other people. Help people. So I'm a resource, okay, I'm a resource. Now what do I do with that? I want to talk to early career professionals. So like, how can I get in front of them and talk to them about early career? Because these are the things they're gonna have to prepare for this. This is going to be their lives. So, so many realizations have come from it. at the end of the day, I think that for me. Whatever I do, it's always gonna involve my voice because that's the way that I best connect. Having conversations with people and leading them through telling their story. 'cause everybody's not a storyteller and everybody wants to be a podcaster, but not everybody is equipped to podcast in that way. Not everybody's gonna doing interviews, but being able to figure out how to connect to the guest and how to make the guest connect to the audience. I'm like, oh yeah, I could do anything. Just gimme a microphone.

Kenny 16:40

Mm. I love, I love that. I definitely think podcasting is like a, a great proving ground for somebody who like, wants to take a gamble on themselves, wants to get into more, like selling their own. 'cause like you said, like you're having conversations with people, you're pulling out, you know, insights from the conversations. Your broader audience can use, like

Dana 17:05

Yeah.

Kenny 17:06

providing value past that one-on-one conversation that you're having. You're still providing value in that situation, but then you're making this much more of about a community, and just, I don't think people think about podcasting that way, or all the hurdles that they

Dana 17:22

Yeah.

Kenny 17:23

in front of themselves kind of takes away from them having that experience, taking that experience from podcasting. But once you get into it. For me, this is like a itch that has to be scratched. Right? Like, I'm not gonna stop doing this. I guess that's why we're on season eight. But you brought up really great points around, just starting with the basics. I actually saw you out at Black Men in Tech.

Dana 17:47

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 17:47

were out just like with your phone and your microphones, right? And you were just having conversations with people. That's the value in the space.

Dana 17:57

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 17:57

Like that's the value in having the connection with people and allowing them to share their value. it's completely underrated. You don't necessarily need the biggest production

Dana 18:08

Yeah.

Kenny 18:09

to, know, find your niche in this space, and I think

Dana 18:12

Yeah. My

Kenny 18:13

definitely found your niche.

Dana 18:14

low over here. Okay. It's just me in this math book.

Kenny 18:19

Ain't nothing wrong with that. That'll do. That'll definitely do the start, and I'm glad that you're. What, how, what season are you on? Are you on? I can't remember.

Dana 18:29

I am on season three of my show.

Kenny 18:32

Yeah. yeah, yeah. So it is definitely growing and then let, let's pivot a little bit to your speaking engagements, because I feel like that's take, that takes a lot of your time now. I actually saw you on a panel at Black Men in Texas Thrive 2025. And

Dana 18:48

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 18:49

little bit around, you know, how you're using those speaking and engagements to. Pay the bills and just, you know, your brand out further.

Dana 19:01

Yeah, so I truly love speaking. It is the thing that I love to do the most. of course I love my podcast as well, but there's something about giving me a mic and there being a stage that is just like I almost black out in. It's, it's, it's like, it's like autopilot for me. I feel that something ignite in me when I get that microphone and it's time to go and really convey my message to a larger audience for me. I, I started doing it inside of an organization. Really didn't think anything of it. Told you I'm an introvert, so previous to that, like you could never really get me this. Speak previous to George Floyd happening, you could never get me to speak up anywhere. I'm like, I'm just doing my job. I don't care about all of that. and that definitely changed something into me, in me to where I was like, okay, you have this voice, you can use it. You have these thoughts, you're not sharing them. So from there, I just, once I got in front of a microphone, I was like, oh, I really enjoyed this. I remember my first big paid speaking engagement was in Baltimore, Maryland. I went to this leadership conference and they had the stage, they had my name on the, the door and everything, and I was just like so nervous and I was like, Ooh, there's a lot of people in here. And then I got on stage and it was like. Everything left my body that I was feeling was not great. And I literally feel like I floated and I said, okay, now how do we duplicate this? How do we do this a million more times? And I think it's like it's truly passion and drive that's like, oh no, we gotta get more of that. Like, I gotta do this again. I gotta do it again. I gotta do it again. Um. Is is actually deep in my DNA. So, as much as I was an introvert and said I never wanted to talk or speak or even have my voice recorded during a podcast, for me was crazy. 'cause I'm like, I never wanna listen back to anything I had to say. But my grandfather was one of the first, and this is the, what the article says, Negroes on radio in Virginia. So he was one of the first Negroes on radio in Virginia. My, my father was on radio, my uncle was on radio, so they had those big personalities. My grandmother was the first black choral teacher in the city of Virginia Beach and has her own day. So people who have. Big voices and something to share with the masses. I, I come from, and I never thought that it would hit me, but it did.

Kenny 21:34

That's dope. That's dope. so I'm taking it your. Your family that were on the radio, they had like radio voices?

Dana 21:44

Yes.

Kenny 21:44

Okay. I get that sometimes. are you on radio now? Not really.

Dana 21:50

Yeah. Yeah. For guys, like, guys like you can hear really well for women. It's me and one other woman I was talking to. I think the, the last lady that was on my podcast, Suzette, she's an author and we have a deeper register to our voice and I was like, that's why people can. Can listen to us because our voices are a little bit deeper or have a little more depth. So that's why it's easier to listen to us. 'cause I know I'll listen to some podcasts and I'll hear a woman's voice that's a little more high pitch and I'll be like, it's hard for me to continue to listen to it, although I love women and support you all. If the voice is not right for me, it hurts. and same with guys. Some if they have like super vocal drag or a certain accent or. their voice is lighter. I can't listen to it either.

Kenny 22:38

and the great thing about podcasts is that there's millions and millions of podcasts, so you would definitely find one that

Dana 22:44

Yes. My favorite of all time is Dateline Podcast because Keith Morrison has the best voice. I have listened to every single episode of the Dateline podcast specifically for his voice.

Kenny 23:00

Hmm. I'm trying to picture his voice. now, but I know it's clear and

Dana 23:05

You know

Kenny 23:06

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think that way. There were a couple things you said there, but just real quickly, I like the voice thing. For me. I'm glad you brought that up. It's, it. is really comparable for me. I compare it to artists like rappers, singers, like, there's just certain voices we like and there's just certain voices. We don't, it still translates sonically, like

Dana 23:30

Yeah.

Kenny 23:30

to us. There's a rapper now, her name is Che Noir.

Dana 23:36

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 23:37

voice is like so incredible me. Like even if she wasn't rapping.

Dana 23:44

Yeah.

Kenny 23:44

listen to her like, know, read like kid books or whatever, like it doesn't even matter, like announce at a sports game. It's just certain voices to your point, like once

Dana 23:55

Yeah,

Kenny 23:55

those voices you want to hear more and more of them.

Dana 23:58

absolutely. It definitely is a gift,

Kenny 24:00

yeah, it definitely is a give. And you also mentioned something in there that I heard. You still get the nerves. You still get nerves and the. The butterflies and all that stuff going on stage. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think people have the perception that you're on stage all the time, it means like you figured this thing out and you can

Dana 24:19

right?

Kenny 24:20

up there, no feelings and just knock things out all the time.

Dana 24:24

Yeah, so it really depends. Now, smaller stages or, panels I don't have any nerves about. but if I'm on a bigger stage, then I'm like, oh, this is my first time here. I need to feel this out. I don't really know how it's going. Like we all struggle a bit with imposter syndrome and, and, and questioning like, should I be here? Should I be doing this? are they sure they booked me? Are they sure this is who they wanted? Like, do they read the website? Do they know it's me? So we all struggle a bit with that, but mine, I've been able to control a lot better. At first, I was like, nervous wreck, like, oh my gosh. And then finally I get on stage and it'll start going. But for me, I try to just remind myself like, you are here. You deserve to be. Here you are. Dana Duckworth, AKA, the big speaker. And there's nobody that can do it better than you right now, in this moment where you are. So get out there and do it. And it's, I I'm telling you, as soon as I'm like, hi, I'm Dana Duckworth, AKA, the vga, the show starts.

Kenny 25:30

I feel like it came out just now a little bit

Dana 25:33

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 25:34

just talking the, the last minute or so. almost felt like I was on the Hilariously Unemployed podcast, and I was about to say, is Dana about to interview me? It came out that the, the, the, the show must go on that came outta you just

Dana 25:50

Yeah.

Kenny 25:51

I'm glad that you, on that. Talk a little bit about, most of our, well, a large portion of our listeners, they're like business owners. They're founders,

Dana 26:03

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 26:04

that people, especially in our community. like the questions we have around pricing and things like

Dana 26:11

Yeah.

Kenny 26:11

how to price what we offer. Talk a little bit about first, like how did you go about pricing yourself into the speaking engagement market,

Dana 26:22

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 26:22

pricing evolved over time? Not necessarily specifics if you want to. Cool. But

Dana 26:27

Okay.

Kenny 26:28

about how that process has been for you.

Dana 26:31

Okay, so my first paid speaking engagement, I was working inside the organization and one of the nonprofit partners were like, Hey, could you come and talk to, some of our staff about some of the themes that you talk about, when you meet with us and what you all are doing inside the organization? I'm like, okay. They paid me $250 when I told I was so excited that somebody was paying to hear my voice. I couldn't believe it. I literally could not believe it, and then flash forward to my first big engagement on a big stage. Outside of that, we jump up to $2,800. Right. So from there I'm like, oh, I don't even know the value of my voice because this is two 50 over here. This is 2,800 over here. Granted, it was nonprofit to like a, a for-profit business. So it was, it was hard to figure out what the, the strategy was gonna be and what the business model was. And then as a new speaker, your job is to become visible so that people can see you. So what are you willing to give for free in order to build that brand? So that was a constant struggle of like, oh, it'll be good for exposure. And like you have a good window of when exposure is good before you need to start getting to the money. Because there's so many other ways in which you can expose yourself that are free for you. Like, I got a podcast. Okay, I got exposure. I'm at these conferences, I'm meeting these people, I'm doing these things. So I have the exposure. Now it's time for me to claim my value. And for me it was a little easier because. My background is in multifamily housing, so I spent over 14 years supporting multifamily housing, everything from a property manager to then on the sales side I work for apartments.com, to then more in-house roles inside of those organizations and supporting the employees. So that's my background and I have a lot of friends in that space who also wanted to be speakers at the time. So we had to figure out how are we gonna price ourselves and not outprice. Or water down anybody else's value. So we came up with a system in that first year. It's like, all right, nobody's doing anything for under 2,500. If they want you, they want me. And this is at a time where DEI is still doing well. So it's like if they want a black girl, they gotta play. The black girl reads, right? They can't be like, oh, we just need somebody to fit that mold and then go over here. And she's like, I'll do it for $800. No, we're not doing that. So we kind of set a standard for ourself and that really worked. And then, most of them have full-time day jobs still inside of that industry. So their situation is always gonna be different from mine because. I'm full time in this. So then it became like, what is the value that I'm adding? What am I sharing? How much time is it taking me? And as a speaker, you cannot underestimate the amount of time it takes you to put together these presentations and be prepared to speak to people. It's not just like thought leadership. It's not just knowledge I have inside of my head that I'm just standing there and talking to you about 60 minutes up. I'm creating frameworks. I'm creating timelines. I'm creating processes because I want you to have something actionable when you leave me. And the time that it takes to create that, I, I said, oh yeah, 2,500 is kind of, oh, it's taking me eight to 10 hours minimum to create.

Kenny 29:53

Mm.

Dana 29:53

So that's when the price went up and it's been up and up and up since then. Like my goal is to do, be able to do a, a keynote at 10 K. Now keynotes get paid anywhere from 20 5K, 30 K, 30 5K, but I feel like once I do that first one for 10 K, the sky is really the limit for me, and it is a proof of concept to myself that. Your value is 10 k plus. So that's kind of how I figured out how to package in and charge for my services.

Kenny 30:26

Yeah. I love that. you said a lot in there. One thing I heard was, it's interesting you heard the difference between, I heard the difference between a nonprofit and a for-profit. Those rates definitely change.

Dana 30:41

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 30:42

but within that, I think the, the, the broader story is like the, you know, and I've said this for quite some time now, just the, the idea of focusing on like B2B. Relationships. it

Dana 30:55

Yeah.

Kenny 30:55

definitely comes with a premi but then there's gonna be various, various, markets you can serve like for B2B, right? Is it a nonprofit versus a for-profit business? But it's

Dana 31:07

Yeah.

Kenny 31:07

either way. Like, like you said, if you're somebody who's used to corporate America, a steady check and then somebody pays you two 50 for one hour of your time

Dana 31:17

Nobody can.

Kenny 31:20

I'm just saying in that example, right,

Dana 31:22

Yeah.

Kenny 31:22

opener, right? Because it's like the average American makes nowhere near two 50 for an hour, Right. And so that's where it starts to click. And I'm hoping we see more people at least take gambles on themselves. Whether you still have a, you know, a nine to five, or you take the, the full, you know, jump off the cliff moment. There's nothing wrong with how you manage it, but taking

Dana 31:45

Right.

Kenny 31:46

on yourself is. I think right now is, especially in the markets we're in, it's so important to do, you know, what you've done. and

Dana 31:55

Yeah.

Kenny 31:55

to hear like, like you said, the price is definitely not staying stagnant or going down. The

Dana 32:00

Yes,

Kenny 32:00

going up,

Dana 32:02

yesterday's price is not today's price. yeah, so I've had the pleasure of coaching two students on speaking this year, and that for me is truly a gift to be able to be like people see you and be like, oh wow, she does this, and she does as well. I want her to be able to teach me how she does that. So I think there's so many ways in which just using my voice has provided me opportunities for revenue, because I never positioned myself as I'm a speaker coach. No, I do this, I do it well, and people came to me and asked me to assist with that. So there you have another stream of revenue that is attached to that. Also, when people hear me talk, they're like, oh, she probably could help us think through some of these things. Okay, so now I'm consulting. So now we come back to an hourly rate where I'm sitting on a Zoom and supporting people who are trying to put certain things together inside of their organization. So another stream of revenue is built out of that. I build presentations and I ghost write. If you are a speaker and you like, girl, I am just drenched at work. I, I don't have time to put together a Canva presentation. This is my outline. These are my key thoughts. Can you give me some talking points and make something really beautiful that I can showcase? I can do that for you. So really figuring out the things that I'm already strong at, the things that I already do for myself. How can I do those for other people?

Kenny 33:26

Hmm. I like that ghost riding angle

Dana 33:30

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 33:32

it makes me think of, you know, everybody tries that one time to, you know, go, they go to chat GPT and they're like, Hey, you know, write me a speech as though I'm like, Barack Obama or something like that. And it's just like,

Dana 33:45

Yeah.

Kenny 33:46

that's not gonna cut it. But he

Dana 33:48

Is

Kenny 33:49

to like tell you, that's not gonna,

Dana 33:51

it.

Kenny 33:51

gonna cut it. And you truly need somebody who knows your voice, your tone, your inflections, to really craft something for you if you're not gonna yourself. comes, that comes at a premium.

Dana 34:02

Yeah, it definitely does. The only thing that's hard about ghost writing is people don't know that I ghostwriting.

Kenny 34:09

Oh yeah.

Dana 34:11

It's not as lucrative as it could be because I'm not going around saying I put that together.

Kenny 34:16

Well, I, I mean, I guess so we've had ghost writer, ghostwriters, people in that field on, as guests before.

Dana 34:25

Hmm.

Kenny 34:26

they positioned it, I'll have to go back and, and check my exact notes, but if I recall, you still, you still get to say something along the lines of, you work with X brand right.

Dana 34:38

Okay.

Kenny 34:39

And so I think that's how they position it a lot. And they've been doing ghost writing for years, right? So their, their Rolodex of at least logos when people see it is like, oh, I've written for this publication or this business.

Dana 34:51

Okay.

Kenny 34:51

how they positioned it in the past. But to your point, you're not gonna be able to say, Hey, I wrote for Kenny Groom in 2022. This.

Dana 34:59

Well he was on that stage doing that just like a rapper, like a, doesn't want anybody to say, oh yeah, she, she put a little sauce on the hook. Nobody wants to hear that. Um.

Kenny 35:08

But the thing about, the thing about music though is I'm a credit person type of person, right? And so credits, right in terms of like, I got vinyls. You see the vinyls in the background. I

Dana 35:18

Yeah.

Kenny 35:19

back and say who wrote what?

Dana 35:21

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 35:22

even for music, they have it there, but it's always hidden like a couple layers. Like who clicks the view credits button? Besides Kenny, raise your hand. Like probably nobody, right?

Dana 35:32

Yeah.

Kenny 35:35

There still is some opportunities in this tech space to give people credit,

Dana 35:40

Mm-hmm.

Kenny 35:41

are not the one performing it, still giving you credit for writing it. I'm

Dana 35:46

Yeah. Yeah. I, I think I, I'll have to word in collaboration with, you know, or I think. Being that I do have the brand speak up, Dana. They could be like in collaboration with Speak Up Dana, and like people don't know if that means I'll put a period on the end of a sentence or I wrote the entire thing. So, I, I think I will figure out how to marketing brand that better next year.

Kenny 36:08

so now that we have gone down the path of discussing pricing and just the different ways that you're thinking about your business. I wanna make sure we close out by letting folks know how they can stay connected with your brand, all the things that you're doing, whether it's your podcast or your speaking engagements, like what's the best way?

Dana 36:30

Yeah, so you can visit my website, speak up dana.com. You can follow me on LinkedIn, Dana Duckworth, the black one with the cornrows in her photo. You can follow my lifestyle shenanigans no days off. That's K-N-O-W-D-A-Y-Z-O-F-F on Instagram. You can follow the podcast, of course, anywhere you get your podcast on. Okay, we talking about Apple, YouTube. Spotify, anywhere you get your PO on, you can find hilariously unemployed. You can also find the Instagram at hilariously unemployed and speak up Dana on Instagram and Facebook as well.